iSorry, But Steve Jobs was a Dick

There's nothing PC about this, and that's how Steve Jobs would've wanted it.

One thing that most people either appreciate or despise about me is that I have a tendency to bluntly call things like I see them, regardless of the fallout. What's fascinating to me though is that no matter how many times I do this, it is usually met with genuine surprise from people who have known me for years. Even here at Points in Case, where I have clearly outlined exactly what to expect from me, people still seem to be taken aback when I write something that challenges general thinking. I mean, come on people, the description of my column is "Sarcastic, eye-opening observations from someone crazy enough to tell you the truth and leave you questioning your own reality." So it should really come as no surprise to anyone when I say, "Is it just me, or was Steve Jobs kind of a dick?"

iSuck Apple Mac logo
iSorry, iJust calling it like iSee it.

I know it is supposedly in poor taste to speak ill of the dead, but the way I see it, Steve Jobs didn't want people to be PC, especially at a time like this. Besides, it isn't like he cared in the least about social etiquette, and let's face it, neither do you if your iPhone usage is any measure. Everyone keeps extolling about how he revolutionized the way people interact with each other and technology, but who are you really kidding? What Steve Jobs actually did was build really cool gadgets that single-handedly DESTROYED the way people interact with each other. Here's a Flash for you, not actually talking to people is about as revolutionary as using Adobe as a building material. What Steve Jobs did was create an army of narcissistic, self-centered, self-absorbed, zombie clones by sucking their very souls into his world like Shang Tsung.

Look, I get it, you like your iPad/iPhone/iPod/iMac/iCrash, but the emotional outpouring over this guy's recent death has made me consistently want to stab you people in the iRepeatedly. Since when did Steve Jobs, the arrogant asshole who made it impossible for people to do what they want with music they purchased, become Mother Freakin' Teresa?! All I hear about now is what an enlightened visionary he was and how he made everyone's lives better. Let's not forget that this is the same guy who didn't donate any of Apple's revenue to charity because he thought he could do more good by expanding his own company, rather than by focusing on charity, especially once he was diagnosed with cancer. Yeah, real enlightened and visionary-like; I hope the irony of him succumbing to pancreatic cancer (PC) wasn't lost on him in the end.

iSad Apple Mac logo
About the state of ACTUAL human interaction today, which was Steve Jobs' ACTUAL legacy.

A lot of you might think I'm being really inappropriate, but come on, it's not like I denied paternity of my first born child, allowing her to be raised on welfare or something. It's not like I'm doing something that douchebaggy, like claiming to be sterile in order to skirt parental responsibilities and then going on to father three other children later in life. It's not like I'm parking in handicap spots on a regular basis just because I'm a self-centered asshole with a godlike complex who thinks I can do whatever I like. It's not like I claimed to be a leader in providing people access to information and then tried to censor ALL BOOKS by a publisher of an unauthorized biography about me. It's not like I spent my life claiming to be a forward thinker and visionary, but ran a company with a long history of no female executives. Although I suppose one could argue that Jobs did make up for his lack of female executives in the end by naming one of his gadgets after a feminine hygiene product.

Now I'm sure all of Jobs' creepy hipster acolyte drones were more touched than one of his products' screens at the turn out for those bizarre, cult-like digital candlelight vigils held at various Apple stores, but honestly I think those fanboys were a little touched to begin with. I mean we are talking about a guy who exploited a loophole in the United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS) system to get a liver transplant faster than other people. Very likely, there is some poor dead bastard who didn't get a much-needed liver transplant because Steve Jobs used his billionaire status to essentially cut in front of him. I doubt that Steve Jobs said, "iSorry" to whomever he put six feet underground for all intensive purposes, but I like to imagine that their tombstone said, "iDied because of Steve Jobs."

Apple iPod coffin - buried electronics
iFail to see why Steve Jobs deserves a liver more than anyone else.

All I'm asking for here is that the world try and get just a little perspective, shall we? The week before Steve Jobs died, Wangari Maathai, the first African female recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, died after a long struggle with cancer, and you people didn't say shit. At best, Steve Jobs was an iCon who made cool toys and gadgets, not the second coming of Christ. If we as a generation are going to claim to be on the cutting edge of advancements that make the world a better place, we might want to start acting like it. I'm not glad that the poor sod died, but I will say this, at least now I know the answer to the age old debate of which is more susceptible to fatal crashes, Mac or PC.

Steve Jobs' tombstone
iHope you all pull your heads out of your asses someday, maybe there'll be an app for that.



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It's "all intents and purposes." Otherwise, I second everything.

GE's picture

Somebody took the bait.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha Not in my world it's not, but then my purposes are more intense than others.

http://www.pointsincase.com/columns/andrei-trostel/words-phrases-i-often...

;)

i felt like i was the only one who felt this way.........i got annoyed of everyone posting on facebook how sorry they were that he died since he was "such a great man" that i finally commented on one saying he was actually kinda a jerk and everyone got mad at me....i was like wtf.....honestly, more of my friends commented on his death than would ever comment on mine. it was kinda annoying.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Yeah it's the "he died, thus he's now a saint" syndrome, which I happen to not subscribe to.

Being accomplished in your field doesn't make you any less of an asshole.

For an extreme example, Hitler was still a dick even though he's dead.

Thank you for your comment in the face of the drone zombie masses.

so do something in life that makes people care.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Yeah, like today I walked into an Apple store and pulled this article up on one of the biggest screens in the store.

Laughter is something people care about.

Good times.

;)

Unlike some of your other pieces, this one isn't very funny. It's just misinformed and full of Anti-apple fanaticism.

The part about turtlenecks was funny. But that wasn't even in the article...otherwise any jokes you crack are tasteless.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Of course you didn't find this one very funny, because you happen to be the butt of the jokes and thus can't even remotely see the forest for the trees.

Wait, I'm sorry, did you just use the words misinformed and fanaticism?!

HAHA! Damn, now THAT'S funny!

October 24th, 2011 Edit:

Steve Jobs, 60 Minutes, part 1

Steve Jobs, 60 Minutes, part 2

So much for being misinformed eh?
More like confirmed by 60 Minutes via his own authorized biography.
Face it, the guy was a dick, even Steve Jobs knew it.

I have to completely agree with you Andrei. Lets hear it for another Izombie eh?

Andrei Trostel's picture

Thanks Tehhusky.

Yeah, it's amazing that for all the "free thinking" and "original thought" they claim to exhibit there seems to be very little going on in the way of actual thinking for themselves.

iRonic.

Misinformed?
Misinformed huh?
You know what isn't funny?
Our (myself included) blindness to the real world, that's what!

Have a listen:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/mr-daisey-and...

Typed from my MacBook Pro which I'll never feel the same about again.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Thank you so much for posting that and although you may never feel the same about your MacBook Pro again, I'd wager your connection to the world is actually a little bit stronger for it.

GE's picture

This was an excellent source. This is the definition of a primary source. A first hand account. The guy wasn't an "expert witness" but it seems like he is credible.

I still think it's not just an Apple problem or Steve Jobs problem. And, I still believe Jobs was probably honest when he talked about Foxconn (I'm saying Foxconn was probably dishonest with him, which is typical. If you've ever worked anywhere, you know that when the boss comes around you do stuff you would never do otherwise so that you look better at your job than you are). It's a bigger problem than that. I think people attribute more responsibility for industry wide corruption to Apple because they have chosen to be strictly self-regulated and have basically asked people to just trust them. So I guess being cynical of Apple seems fair. If you are an industry leading company that is known for solving big problems, then you should make more than a little impact on the working conditions in your suppliers. But, the reality is that the Chinese government is willing to protect sweat shops -- by blocking real unions from developing and imprisoning "trouble makers" -- because having the lowest production cost is essential to China's economic power.

To bring this back around to the topic of this piece, what, realistically, can you expect from Apple? And, why do you only expect it from Apple and not all the other companies? And, what does this have to do with Jobs' legacy? Is he responsible for how economics is playing out on a global level?

I say, Jobs was probably lied to but he always had good intentions. Andrei says, Jobs was a dick.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha Thanks source sheriff!

I love how if it is a podcast about some American guy doing a spoken word show about going to the factory, who didn't even bother to find out the name of his own interpreter, it seems totally legit to you. However, a report from a group that actually sent undercover Chinese workers in that came out with pictures, first hand accounts and even names of supervisors and employees, it isn't credible at all to you....because I posted it. (Really that is the only reason you disregarded any of the other sources.)

Of course it isn't JUST an Apple problem or a Steve Jobs problem, but to think that Steve Jobs was somehow innocent in it all and unaware (especially given his control freak, insane/obsessive attention to detail) is just beyond naive. All you have to do is read his biography to get a VERY CLEAR picture of the extreme lengths he would go to in order to get done what he wanted, DESPITE the well being of his employees and WITHOUT ANY regard to other human beings. This isn't conjecture Jordan, it is simple, well documented fact. Steve Jobs was a Dick. Period! I've said it before and I'll say it again...to think otherwise only demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge about the man.

What I expect from Apple (and ABSOLUTELY also expect from other companies too) is to not act like total douche bags just to make a buck. Is Apple the only one guilty of this? OF COURSE NOT, but Apple is an extreme example of douchebaggery horseshit BECAUSE Steve Jobs portrayed his company (and especially himself) as this all enlightened, forward thinking, almost organic feeling company when in reality they are no different than any other corporate example of how to make money while fucking people over. Steve Jobs gets a special spotlight cast on him for being a total dick, BECAUSE he made it a point to step on other people and treat people like shit for his own personal selfish agendas. There are SO MANY extreme examples of him acting like a dick at this point that it is almost comedic how much of a megalomaniac dickhead he was. Steve Jobs and his ridiculous dickish antics have become like a cartoon character parody of how NOT to behave around other human beings.

Good intentions doesn't make you a great person Jordan. Serial killers think they are ridding the world of evil when they are stalking, killing and dismembering prostitutes. They are still totally insane dicks who should be fully held accountable for their actions, regardless of what their intentions were.

Pull your head out of the iCloud and join the rest of us in reality Jordan.

Steve Jobs was a Dick...deal with it.
Arguing against the fact that Steve Jobs was a dick, at this point in history, is just ridiculous and down right laughable.

iPromise you that accepting reality won't make you have to give back your precious iPhone.

GE's picture

Andrei, I shouldn't have to explain the difference between primary and secondary source material.

Andrei Trostel's picture

I think you might have to share with us your delusional definition, because it is becoming rapidly clear that you obviously don't understand it.

Here let me help you:

"A primary source is a document, speech, or other sort of evidence written, created or otherwise produced during the time under study. Primary sources offer an inside view of a particular event. Examples include:

Original Documents: Autobiographies, diaries, e-mail, interviews, letters, minutes, news film footage, official records, photographs, raw research data, speeches.

Creative Works: Art, drama, films, music, novels, poetry.

Relics or Artifacts: Buildings, clothing, DNA, furniture, jewelry, pottery."

You'll notice that no where in the examples does it say, "Anything NOT posted by Andrei Trostel" which seems to be your current working definition.

Please note the parts that say "an inside view of a particular event" and "photographs" and "interviews" and "news film footage" etcetera, thus interviews and photographs from undercover Chinese workers that went into the factory are in fact primary sources.

I went as far as showing you filmed interviews with the actual workers which you discredited because you saw an advertisement somewhere on the website you were viewing the video on. Clearly, you aren't operating in any kind of realistic reality when it comes to credible primary sources. The quality of your logic is no different than that of a religious nutcase desperately trying to hold onto your delusions about reality.

I'm curious though, is your family crazy religious, because I'm definitely picking up on some serious ingrained blind following tendencies. If that's true, you might want to look out for that, because while you may have rebelled against religion you're still exhibiting the same bizarre thought processes inherent with that environment.

Think Different.

Shadow's picture

Doesn't get much more reputable than The New York Times:
In China, Human Costs Are Built Into an iPad
By CHARLES DUHIGG and DAVID BARBOZA
Published: January 25, 2012
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-...

Andrei Trostel's picture

Thank you for posting that article.
It is very much appreciated.

Sadly, I still think the mindless sheep will find some way to ignore it, but then I guess that is part of being a mindless sheep.

;)

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/03/16/new_york_times_removes_fab...

New york times removes portions of it's piece. GO Weimer.

Andrei Trostel's picture

This just in: The guy doing theater admits to being theatrical...in other news...Apple has already admitted to it all through Apple's own audits. (PDF)

GO Reality.

:P

Andrei, Andrei.

Apple has nothing to admit to. They do more than anybody else - but regardless, people WANT to work at Foxconn, they literally turn people down at the gates… the alternatives there are much worse. Until you figure out how to bring equality to the 3rd world or to stop globalization please just STFU. (this goes out to armchair philanthropists in general not just you, Andrei)

If apple threw their whole bank account at China, people would have a bunch of money, and their economy would prosper for sure, but not permanently. China are a country who's political and economic power is based almost completely on labor. Manpower. I think it best Apple continue doing what they do best, which ultimately ends up benefitting the world more through propagating great design and not to mention democratizing the globe.

But, for arguments sake lets assume the few accidents that happened on Apple's watch could have been avoided by them.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/27/2751682/apples-tim-cook-expresses-outr...
Tim Cook: " Any suggestion that we don’t care is patently false and offensive to us."

Oh, BY THE WAY. I met Walter Isaacson. Today in LA. He said something along the lines of (paraphrased) " a lot of people have read into my accounts of his sometimes mercurial nature and have come to the conclusion that to be Steve you have to be a jerk. That's not true at all, we know lots of Jerks. Steve was able to inspire people. He was inspirational and passionate."

I asked him if Steve Job's successes were a product of idealism or of narcissism. Idealism.

"What's weird about this is that you Apple acolytes will eagerly jump up and down when the guy doing theater admits to being theatrical" If theatrical is a euphemism for completely misleading, yeah. sure.

-kind of like the senseless apple-haters who jump up down eagerly when the NYT uses Apple as an EXAMPLE of the state of global manufacturing facing humanity.

No?

please, Just give up, Andrei

Andrei Trostel's picture

Antizzy Antizzy...hey you know the "tizzy" part of your handle is really starting to make sense.

I've said this before when you got all upset and hurt over me pointing out the factual reality that is Apple's shady practices and Steve Jobs's dickishness. "You are perfectly welcome at anytime to unclick that little "Notify me when new comments are posted" box whenever you've heard enough. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to read all the comments and reply to them, so telling people to STFU is about as meaningless as Apple's PR coverup speeches. You are here of your own accord.

If Apple has nothing to admit then why is there lengthy documentation from their own company admitting violations regarding the very things we are talking about? It's not a huge mental leap you know. If it wasn't true, no problems would be found. But guess what, problems were found and recorded, thereby demonstrating that they do actually exist. As far as doing everything they can to prevent the violations, it's been said before and I'll reiterate it for you. How long do you think it would take Apple to solve a major problem if their iPhone couldn't be shipped on time? Would it take 5 years or more to correct the problem? Probably not. Let's see how long it takes Tim Cook to resolve the situation. Let's clock it by iPhone releases to show what really matters to him?

Oh you met Walter Isaacson in LA today?! Yeah, was that at the 2012 Apple Investor Summit? Did you get all the information you needed to make up your mind that Steve Jobs was awesome and Apple is amazing so that you can feel good about further investing in Apple. Jesus Christ, you simply can't be this naive.

Please, by all means though, keep drinking the Kool-Aid Antizzy.

facepalm*

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, Andre. I'll pretend you never sent that last response. Oh, and nobody's complaining. I thoroughly enjoy making you look silly.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Wait, you are going to pretend that something never happened instead of addressing it?!
Well that's a fucking shocker! HAHA!

"Oh, and nobody's complaining."

Says the person who's been doing nothing but complaining about me replying to comments in my own article...all the while leaving additional comments.

You're not making anyone look silly but yourself.

Awww. Andrei's gone gotten himself flustered up from antizzy. Tissue? Some grey pupon for your ad hominem?

Andrei Trostel's picture

I'm laughing at you and you think I'm upset or flustered?
You're more confused than I thought.

I can't help but notice you're still deflecting instead of actually addressing my comment though.

Typical.

Of course he's confused, he's an Apple user. This article was spot on Andrei. Also, some of these commenters like this Antizzy guy and that J.E. Weimer idiot are prime examples of the simple minded buffoons that are The Cult of Apple. Everyone knows that Macs are for computer users who can't handle complex things, that's why they were made with such a simple interface. Fast forward a couple of decades and you have all these simple minded devotees running around spewing mindless nonsense. They don't call it The Cult of Apple for nothing you know. It is always the easily influenced, simple fucks who can't think for themselves who join a cult. They should of named the company Banana, what with all the unevolved monkeys who use them.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Thanks and that is actually a fascinating take on the evolution of it all since the origins of the Mac were based in simplifying complex computing.

HAHA! I seriously laughed out loud at the banana bit.

Great points. Andrei is a genius. Jobs is a dick. People who dont agree with me are in a cult. That cult values simplicity and thinking. Fuck THEM. There dumb. They don't give a shit about people in china.

Andrei Trostel's picture

*They're

:P

I know, I was mocking your idiot fans.

:P

Andrei Trostel's picture

Playing fast and loose throwing "thinking" in there though, eh?

:P

GE's picture

That has got to be one of the most narcissistic things I've ever heard somebody doing. I guess after a writer directly presented himself as better than Steve Jobs in his own article, I shouldn't be surprised that he might do something like that. After all, two of the six paragraphs, in this article about Steve Jobs being a dick, were about you. So naturally, you'd also walk yourself into an Apple store and pull up your own article, in which you talk about yourself a third of the time, for everyone to look at and admire. Keep in mind that I don't think narcissism is a completely terrible thing, but in this case, your blast of narcissism makes you appear to be a hypocrite.

Do you hate narcissism... or yourself for being narcissistic? Or, are you in denial that you're narcissistic?

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha! Do you really think I pulled up this article in an Apple store for everyone to admire? That's freakin' hilarious, you really are out of touch with reality then aren't you?

Once again Weijore, the comedy of a situation eludes you in your haze.

GE's picture

What did you expect, Andrei?

Andrei Trostel's picture

More!
No wait, less!

Actually, exactly that...more or less.

;)

I bet if he were still alive no one would be saying he was altruisitic, but hey I guess if Obama could win a peace prize then we could call Jobs altruistic.

Andrei Trostel's picture

I'm pretty sure we could NEVER call Steve Jobs altruistic unless we actually change the definition of altruism.

Altruism: (n) : Unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others.

"Park Different."

;)

GE's picture

The worst thing Steve Jobs ever did was deny paternity while in college and a couple years after. At the time there was no way to verify if the child was his. DNA testing wasn't developed until the late 80's and wasn't respected until the mid 90's. Despite that, within a year after he became a millionaire he decided to support a child he then claimed -- but could not have known -- was his. He and his daughter had a relationship from then on and she even lived with him when she was in high school.

The best thing he did is split between his design and develop the way we all interact with computers and his design and development of devices that have created a twenty first century paradigm for social and cultural interaction. Also, he purchased Pixar from Lucasfilm and nine years later they redefined animation and story telling for children. He also gave to charity anonymously because he didn't want to use donations to charity as a tool for self promotion. He was adopted. He dropped out of college because he didn't want to spend his parents' life savings. He revolutionized traditional corporate strategies for creative productivity and in doing so was able to use the power of ensemble to create the devices he mainly gets credit for. But, he would have been the first to tell you that he was just a piece of an incredible team. Steve Jobs is the embodiment of the new American Dream. He dropped acid and became the most respected man in the United States and possibly the world. Lastly, He was as important to our current place in history as Thomas Edison, if not Steve Gutenberg (lest we not forget the impact of Police Academy 4).

Andrei Trostel's picture

We get it, you like your iPhone even if you miss all the mouse over jokes in the PIC articles because of it.

Give me a break, they were doing blood typing since the 20s, serological testing since the 30s, HLA testing since the 70s and sperm count/semen motility sterility tests for who knows how long.

The power of exclusion for HLA testing alone is 80% and coupled with blood typing and serological testing is closer to 90% and coupled with the fact that he had sex with her and made up that he was sterile, since he obviously wasn't, makes him a dick...period!

He became a millionaire and THEN decided to support the child he knew he had? That's your argument? Now that's comedy!

"But, he would have been the first to tell you that he was just a piece of an incredible team."

Try more like, "he was the smartest man in the room and made sure everyone knew it."

There isn't any record of him donating to charity and thinking he did anonymously is just pure acolyte speculation. However, given his inability to be humble and the fact that he was quoted as saying he didn't want to waste time on charity AND the fact that there was none donated in his death, which he knew was coming...I think we all know the reality of the situation.

Don't pretend his arrogance and dickishness isn't well documented, it just makes your blind devotion look even more bizarre.

Thanks for reading and commenting though.

GE's picture

Paternity testing was far from perfect. It was about as reliable as the pull out method, which as we know doesn't get the Jobs done.

Here is just the tip... a tip, don't act as though you know the specifics of his paternity case. He could have actually believed he was sterile. So, regardless of the fact that he said something that was incorrect, you can't know whether or not he pulled the old "Silicon Valley Switch-a-roo" (traditional "switch a roo" but involves lying about paternity later - aka "The Jobs Switch-a-roo"). For all we know Bill Gates could have been hittin her up too. (Actually, we do know. Bill Gates didn't get laid until after his first billion dollars.)

Furthermore, Jobs was loved and revered and not just by nut jobs. He was loved and revered by the people that worked for him and I'm pretty sure by some people who weren't nut jobs but who also knew him intimately like the people who worked for him but who were not nut jobs... Nut jobs might also hate Steve Jobs because he's so clearly better than them.

I guess it's really hard to tell what he was really like through the eyes of a person that could be a nut job.

seriously. I'm just hoping Trostel doesn't actually feel this ignorant way - if he's just trying to get a reaction out of people, he succeeded and good for him.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Make no mistake, I seriously think Steve Jobs was actually a dick, despite all his amazing gadgets.

I feel that I must disengage from reading the banter -- I've spent enough time on it, and the points aren't getting any more lucid. Honestly, I must say I thought your article was well-written (from the perspective of a hermit who never reads the news), however I also believe your colleague makes valid points...I am not going to put forth the effort to find out which bits of trivia are, in fact, correct. I suspect at least a few points from each side are skewed a bit.

Bottom line:
Was he a hero? Was he a genius? Was he a dick? The answer to all of these questions is obviously subjective, but is also yes, and I am sure Steve would wholeheartedly agree.

Just one editorial comment (as editor for my high school newspaper, back in the day): in our first journalism class weren't we all taught to give more credibility to the author who used the fewest exclamation points?...but I still liked the article (besides, it wasn't til the editorial responses that the exclamation points came out).
Best regards,
--Snaggle-Toothed Cougar (44)

Andrei Trostel's picture

Yeah, why put forth the effort to find out which bits of trivia are, in fact, correct? Opinions based in reality and researched facts are so passé these days. I mean, that definitely makes a lot of sense from an educated journalistic point of view. (That's just from the perspective of a hermit who not only reads the news, but also reads past the news to eliminate the bullshit spin.) :P

I do think you raise a very good point however. Some people are arguing tooth and nail that Steve Jobs wasn't a dick, but the reality of the fact is that Steve Jobs has even admitted to his dickish behavior with basically, "Yeah, so?" Steve Jobs was well aware he was a dick which makes it even more puzzling why those who claim to know so much about him argue so fervently against that fact.

Thanks so much for reading and for your comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

;)

;-) YW!!!!!! (I won't compete for the most exclamation points...you win!)

I know, it sounds irresponsible to say one does not read the news (or even watch it for that matter). But many doctors have made the point that one of the easiest ways to eliminate stress from one's life is to stop watching the news...and besides, you gotta admit, just because you watch/read it with a critical mind doesn't mean you'll always pull the truth out! On the rare occasion that I DO tune in, I have friends who won't watch the news with me because they get tired of hearing me talk back to it! So I can avoid losing friends, and to protect my health, I'd appreciate it if you could sift through the news for me and eliminate the "bullshit spin"...oh, wait, is that what you were ......?

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha, Yep.

By the way, MC PhD would make a great name for a DJ that eliminates the bullshit spinning.

;)

zanky's picture

WOW. ... 77 recommendations for your article.. way to go andrei.. u r famous ;))

Andrei Trostel's picture

Actually I think it speaks more to the fact that Steve Jobs was a famous dick.

;)

zanky's picture

ah well, who cares.. the whole world knows it after Isaacson's book .. btw I use a mac myself :p so you see, iUnderstand !!

Andrei Trostel's picture

That's actually one of the MOST fascinating things about this in that a lot of the misinformed blind sheeple clearly haven't even read the Isaacson biography, where a lot of the facts they are fighting so fervently against are even confirmed by Steve Jobs himself! I guess blindly following while being misinformed is exactly what makes them blind sheeple though.

The other fascinating thing is that a huge percentage of them are using Windows 7/Firefox/Chrome/I.E. and NOT a Mac OS running Safari. Really it is just about defending the idea of being cool, hip, enlightened and on the cutting edge, but exactly like Steve Jobs and his enlightened Buddhist philosophies, it is all just bullshit to sell an image with no actual implementation.

iFigured.

;)

Andrei Trostel's picture

Weijore, this all disturbingly rings of the thoughts of a religious zealot. Much like actual history that is often denied by bible thumpers, this stuff isn't hearsay or opinion, but rather documented by the people around him, including his own daughter. Turn a blind eye if you want to for your messiah, but facts are facts. Look it up, he denied paternity of his daughter, named a computer after her (while swearing it was coincidence) and then later acknowledged her existence. He wasn't forced to acknowledge her, he did it on his own, because he knew all along. Paint it whatever color you like, but it is still a dick move by ALL accounts...followed by more dick moves throughout his life. Also your suggestion that she was probably a whore (although joking) rings disturbingly like arguments used by these types of dickish cowardly men. Oh and not for nothing, but throwing in that he was adopted and abandoned by his biological parents doesn't make the case stronger that he was a good person. If anything it makes it worse since he repeated the behavior instead of using his enlightenment/experience and ensuring it didn't happen to his own child since he knew what it felt like.

Again, here's an extreme example to make a point. Hitler "was loved and revered by the people that worked for him and I'm pretty sure by some people who weren't nut jobs but who also knew him intimately like the people who worked for him but who were not nut jobs..." You get the point, Hitler was still a dick regardless.

Arguing against in your face facts, because you like your computer or phone doesn't bring you any closer to visionary enlightenment, if anything it puts you further away.

Come on man, you're brighter than this and it's the same kind of blind following crap that we all know you personally hate. If you're going to take this stance you might as well pick up a bible and start going door to door preaching the word.

One of 2 conclusions.

1.) either he legitimately thought she was a slut and didn't think it was his.

2.) he was a young guy who freaked out and made a mistake.

Either way, it doesn't make him hitler, it only makes him human.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Yup, a human dick.

Obviously it doesn't make him Hitler, that is just an extreme example to demonstrate that you can be loved by blind masses and still be a total dick.

GE's picture

Hitler killed six million jews. From his legacy we can see that he was the biggest/smallest/least desirable/probably flacid and sad dick in history.

Steve Jobs enhanced the lives of everyone has worked on a modern computer. He wasn't a dick. He was a shiny life-giving vagina that birthed a huge part of our daily lives. He was the opposite of Hitler.

No one would accuse Hitler of being a good person if he had been humble all the time and if he had accepted paternity of his child or even a thousand orphans.

Andrei Trostel's picture

And no one is saying Steve Jobs was Hitler and you know it. Hitler is only an extreme example to shoot down the horseshit argument that someone loved by many is therefore not also a dick. If you want we can call Steve Jobs a massive cunt if you like.

;)

Hitler was known to be an agreeable individual. Unlike Steve Jobs. Obviously there's a difference between nice and good.

Andrei Trostel's picture

So let's see here, he wasn't agreeable, did lots of dickish things to people, abandoned his kid, cost someone else a liver transplant, ran a sweatshop in China, parked in handicap spaces, furthered the idea of censorship, but yet he was still a good person because his company was a success and made cool gadgets...just not nice?

Yeah sure, that makes sense.

Um...no!

If you want you can imagine the title of this article is also, "iSorry, But Steve Jobs Was NOT a Good Person."

At the end of the day Steve's Jobs was human. Yeah, he freaked out and didn't want to admit that he had a kid - He was young and foolish. People make mistakes and they learn from them. Can you, self-righteous beacon of light that you obviously are, say that the duration of your existence has yielded nothing but candy and smiles? You didn't know the guy.

Yeah he rubbed some people the wrong way - if you have bullshit he'll call you on it. If he seems like the smartest person in the room maybe it's because he is.

As far as donating, he stopped charity programs at apple because he realized that first off charity is a personal decision for people, and secondly that he could make a greater impact on the world by connecting people.

The fact that anybody can make their way in this world with nothing more than a computer and motivation speaks wonders. Suddenly most things have become democratized - barrier to entry to MAKE THINGS is smaller than ever, thanks in large part to what? Oh yeah, a consumer facing computer. His outpouring of energy and care into Apple was one of the greatest contributions ever. Your pure speculation that he didn't donate is just that. There's more evidence to the contrary. He did in private, according to people much closer to him than you.

If you're retarded and I have to work with you, I'll probably get frustrated and be a dick. PEACE AND LOVE LET'S ALL HOLD HANDS.

get off your fucking pedestal.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Look, no one is arguing that he didn't make massive contributions to the computer tech industry, but this article speaks to all the overwhelming outpouring of emotion about what a great caring and amazing human being he was. The fact of the matter is that he was an asshole and it is pretty well documented, even by those close to him. To that there is actually more evidence from people close to him that he didn't actually donate to charity and those close to him have even quoted him as to why. You can pretend he was something he wasn't all you want, but you are only deluding yourself.

I'm not on a pedestal or even claiming I haven't made mistakes in my life, but if you are going to tell me that Steve Jobs was this amazing, kind, caring, loving human being that bettered everyone's lives, I'm simply going to call you on the bullshit.

He was a smart man who made cool gadgets

Get your fucking head out of the clouds.

he didn't better everyone's lives by being kind, caring, loving, and "being an all around fucking boy scout". He did it by setting an example of how to do things as best and as simply as possible. He did it by directing Apple to empower humans and artists to communicate. (Best DAW in the world, Best Film Editing in the world, Best PCs in the world ...not an accident) He bettered our lives by showing us it's ok to have strength in our convictions, and by stressing the importance of being good at what you do and doing what you love.

As someone who has read damn near everything under the sun about this guy, I would hardly say that his being a bad person is well documented. As far as being charitable, why do you think he's great friends with Bono?

He was a smart man who made cool gadgets. Who also changed the landscape of daily life as we know it. He was the one standing up for human beings, and for artists, while the other guys were chasing profit margins. Like any tragic hero, he had his flaws - but if we were to weigh the amount of good he brought into the world vs the amount of bad, he'd seem like a fucking boy scout.

Andrei Trostel's picture

"he didn't better everyone's lives by being kind, caring, loving, and "being an all around fucking boy scout."

"He was a smart man who made cool gadgets."

Why does it seem like, as time goes by, you are really arguing more and more FOR the article rather than against it. It seems you are well aware of what a dick he was, but simply don't care because he made really cool shit.

The title of the article is "iSorry, But Steve Jobs Was a Dick" not iSorry, But Steve Jobs Didn't Make Cool Gadgets."

If you've actually read damn near everything under the sun about this guy then you know that you don't have to look far to find the facts about his dickish behavior and antics throughout his career/life. I've even highlighted quite a few of them for you here in this article, which I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that you've conveniently glossed over them to focus on his IT advancements. You're right though, Apple doesn't chase profit margins, which is why their smartphones/tablets/computers are so affordable to the general public...oh...wait....never mind.

Now if you excuse me I have to call all of my friends to get the specifics on their charitable donations so that I can claim them on my income taxes next year.

wrong. nobody is arguing for your article. what IS being argued for is the fact that the "dickish" qualities you condemn are superficial in the grand scheme of what it means to be a good person. Any other evidence you bring up seems contrived or unfounded. Being a good person doesn't mean following the law. It doesn't mean doing what others perceive as correct. it means doing the best thing that you know in your heart is right. And that's what steve was all about, and what the products he HELPED bring about reflected.

Andrei Trostel's picture

"it means doing the best thing that you know in your heart is right."

Um...I'm sorry, but are you defining a good person as someone who follows their convictions and doing the best thing that they know in their heart is right, not what others perceive is correct? That's insane logic!

Serial killers often think they are ridding the world of evil.
Suicide bombers think they are doing the best thing that they know in their heart is right.
People who go into schools and shoot kids often have detailed manifestos demonstrating their conviction and passion for what they did.

As stated before, these and the Hitler example are extreme to make a point, but Steve Jobs did a lot of shit that maybe YOU think is superficial in the grand scheme of what it means to be a good person, but then again you probably had a dad. You probably don't desperately need a liver to survive. You probably don't work in a sweat shop in China. You probably didn't start a publishing company only to have all its titles censored because of someone's ego. You probably don't need that handicap space.

Perhaps the reason his acolytes see his "dickish" qualities as superficial is because they themselves are highly superficial and not the deep enlightened thinkers they so often claim to be.

At least they look cool updating their facebook though, so that's good.

Correct: "Get your fucking head out of the iClouds." :D

Andrei Trostel's picture

HAHA Nice. :P

Speaking of iCloud, someone just told me that you have to pay for putting stuff there past 5GB!

$20/year for each 10GB extra you want.
i.e. $40/year for 20GB extra, $100/year for 50GB extra etc.

What a load of horseshit!
You can buy a 64GB flash drive or even a tiny little portable terabyte hard drive for easily under $100 these days.

Also Amazon and Google has the same cloud service for a fraction of the price.

You iCloud users who are paying for extra storage are a bunch of suckers!

HaHa lest we not forget Steve Guttenberg, fabulous. I actually agree with a lot both you two are saying. But the guy writing this article you gotta slow up man, Weimer is killing you here because hes being ironic as fuck and youre missing all the points and reverting to classic american online policy of I dont get your argument so ill just tell you what a thick cunt you are, when to anyone else you end up looking like an insulting cunt. slow down, keep calm and have a cup of tea!

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha now THAT is funny! Jellofish, If you only knew for how long I've put up with Weijore's holier than thou, antagonist, ad hominem, horseshit critiques on this site, you would realize that I am actually being extremely patient with him for even replying to his comments at all anymore. Believe you me, I get his arguments, in fact all I get from him these days are arguments, after arguments, after arguments, simply for the sake of arguing. Rest assured, you've got it all backwards mate.

Very insightful of you. Instead of choosing to side with Andrei, one of the nicest guys ever, you chose to side with Weimer, one of the most annoying D-bags ever. Well done to you, your mother must be proud.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Awww thanks for that, I'm flattered, although to be fair I have met more annoying douche bags than Weijore.

What I found particularly interesting was that Jellofish managed to accuse me of telling people what a "thick cunt" they are, told me that I "end up looking like an insulting cunt" and to basically slow/calm down, all while being an insulting/thick cunt himself as he proceeded to stereotype an entire country.

Talk about "ironic as fuck."

HAHA!

Molly Williams's picture

I feel bad that he died, but mostly because for my Personal Finance class we're having a competition to see whose chosen stock can gain the most by the end of the semester. When we chose our stocks it was right after Steve Jobs resigned, so Apple stock had just gone way down, and it seemed like a good choice. Then he kicked, the stock dropped a ton, and it was like, well, fuck.

So basically I'm a horrible person and probably going to Hell.
Are Apple products fire-resistant? I hope so.

Andrei Trostel's picture

First rule of investing, know your company. When a workaholic man with a terminal disease and a godlike complex resigns, he's involuntarily retiring in a big way.

Yes, Apple products are retardant.

;)

Andrei I thought you said for a moment that 'Yes, Apple products are retarded'. Thumbs up to you!!!

Andrei Trostel's picture

I did.

Retardant- adj. Acting or tending to retard.

Thanks!

;)

I agree with you - where is the perspective? As I totally type this on my awesome iPhone hahaha! - but I cant add anything more eloquent than what you have expressed. All he did was make little toys - some of them are neato and some of them dont work that well - ahem. iTunes. - Quit turning him into Jesus and get the hell over it. And oh, large corporation capitalizing on the death of your leader, stop trying to sell me a new iPhone from the grave. Its creepy.
- Hollan Read (too lazy to sign in)

All he did was NOT make little toys.

He brought the logical and sane to the forefront of tech. He taught us it's ok to say fuck the status quo if it sucks. He taught us we don't have to fit into the grid.

All of the people who will be pushing civilization forward for the foreseeable future have been inspired by his unrelenting drive for perfection and honesty.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Just out of curiosity were some of those logical and sane people the ones who bought out black turtlenecks after his death? HAHA Seriously, WTF?!

Do you honestly think you are saying fuck the status quo as you eagerly wait in line for your new iPhone/iPad while furiously typing away on the previous model that is working just fine? Are you honestly telling me that you've deluded yourself into thinking you are some kind of off the grid radical as you check in on facebook/foursquare from your iPhone?

You might want to lose the impression of a mindless sheep while you are convincing yourself how revolutionary you are.

I'm not arguing that he didn't have unrelenting drive for perfection or make some really cool toys and gadgets that people will use to advance technology. However, being a perfectionist and making fun/cool shit doesn't make you a nice person. Sometimes the most successful business people in the world make some of the largest sacrifices as decent human beings.

The guy was an arrogant ass with his unrelenting drive for perfection, so much so that he knowingly denied paternity of a child among pulling countless other dick moves.

You might want to demonstrate some logic and sanity if you want to claim to be a part of the logical and sane. Just a thought.

Thanks for reading and for your comment though.

First off: Luckily the status quo is better than ever before, thanks to Apple. The cream is finally rising to the top. ;) And I think that's one of the big points that show why there's an outpouring of emotion for him. Apple played a large part in leading the way in terms of creating things for the sake of creating them- meaning making them as good as possible; a breath of fresh air outside of the towering corporate slime of yore. Apple is like an honest local mechanic...somewhat rare.

Ease up on projecting you're impressions on my personality. I make no pretense of being an off the grid radical. And if you're idea of being radical has to do with not favoring a certain level of quality in a product, I think your missing the point.

imagine you have your own kids and then someone else's your taking care of. You'll probably be nice and more forgiving for the kid who (at the end of the day) you don't care about as much and isn't your own. You'll be harder on your own kid because you care. In a similar vein, being a nice person isn't the same thing as being a good person. We could coat the whole world in sugar, but it would still probably taste bad.

Andrei Trostel's picture

HAHA! If you think Apple is outside of the towering corporate slime of yore and like an honest local mechanic then you are even more deluded than I thought. You don't get much more towering corporate slime than trying to lock people into ONLY using your products for your own personal gain, or trying to censor entire publishers because they published a single author that wrote something you didn't like. Apple and their iTunes is the very definition of big business trying to monopolizing a market and restricting the consumers freedom to do what they want.

Um, I'm not projecting my impressions on your personality, I'm responding to what you actually said. It wasn't me who said, "fuck the status quo if it sucks. He taught us we don't have to fit into the grid."

I'm sorry, are we actually advocating being a dick to people now, because it gets the job done and is easier/quicker than actually being decent to them?! That's not a fucking role model, that's just being an asshole. Look if you want to say the guy was successful in business by being an asshole and made lots of money making cool shit, I'll agree with you one hundred percent. But let's not pretend he was some benevolent saint, just because he died and you love your phone. That's just horseshit any way you sell it.

In a similar vein, being a nice/good person isn't the same thing as being a good business man. All I'm saying is that you ARE coating the whole world in sugar and it still tastes bad.

who's locking you into using something? If you don't like your iPhone get something better. I think you have your facts wrong. iTunes (and iPhone in relation to carriers), while limited initially, has always made steps in favor of the user, slowly persuading the powers that be (music labels, carriers) into making compromises... any friction there is hardly on Apple's part. That's what Apple freaks understand, that he's got their backs. Ask any of the old circle of Silicon Valley, Woz, any of them, he's been said to 'feel a responsibility to the user.'

No shit it's big business, they're the most valuable company on the planet. Point is, what allowed them to get there is that engrained ethos of integrity.

If you really think the most successful, educated segment of our population is a brainwashed mass of idiots, then you must be more deluded than I. Yes, there is also a segment of consumers who don't know shit or care and want whatever's new, but those happen as much if not more on the pc side of things.

What, precisely, do you think gets some of the most amazing people on our planet so passionate about this company? it's TOTALLY the advertising...

have you ever heard of hard love? He consistently saw some things more clearly than his peers, and yeah maybe he was a little rough around the edges in his early years, but it was his passion that brought out a little dick in him sometime. If you use the disowning Lisa line again, I'll puke.

Being, umm, 'agreeable,' isn't the same thing as being a good person. Hitler was known to be agreeable.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha You think I have MY facts wrong? Tell me Apple fanboy, is it easy to move music around using iTunes, or only easy for people who use Apple exclusively? Am I limited at all by iTunes regarding what I do with music that I've purchased? He's got my back huh? Have you ever had a battery die in an iPod and exactly how easy was it to get it replaced and by replaced I don't mean buying the latest device? So what you are saying is that I should just get on board and use Apple products elusively and I'll have no problems? Yeah, that doesn't seem like "towering corporate slime of yore" at all! :P

Yeah exactly, it's big business...I'm glad we finally agree on that and as we all know, big business has always been synonymous with an engrained ethos of integrity. HAHA! ;)

You keep conveniently pointing out the "most successful/educated" segment of our population, but did it ever occur to you that because of the extremely high cost of these "toys" and the fact that they are being marketed as status symbols, the education level/income of its users doesn't actually make them better or more user friendly products? The "most educated" segment of our population is NOT using Apple products to do the work that they've actually been educated to do, they are using them as toys, gadgets and status symbols, because they have the money to buy unnecessary shit. Apple computers are almost never running the top scientific/medical research equipment in the world. Usage share, look it up. Actual data doesn't lie, but of course advertising does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

Of course all of this is really off topic as to whether or not he was a dick which again you seemingly agree with, but feel some kind of odd misplaced acolyte loyalty guilt to come out and fully admit. "yeah maybe he was a little rough around the edges in his early years, but it was his passion that brought out a little dick in him sometime." So he WAS a dick that made cool gadgets...yeah that is what I've been saying all along.

"If you use the disowning Lisa line again, I'll puke."

HAHA! Why, because it is irrefutable evidence that he was actually a dick? Look, I get it that it makes it easier for you to love your messiah if you ignore certain facts about him, but that is not what this article is about, this article is about reality. The reality is that the guy pulled a lot of bullshit to get where he was and while that may have made him EXTREMELY successful in the slimy corporate world, it DOESN'T make him a decent human being.

Parking in handicaps spots? Censorship? Using your wealth to get a faster liver transplant over someone with less money? Being an asshole to people because you can? Denying paternity of your fucking child when you know damn well what it feels like to be abandoned? Oh yeah, he was a real saint, but hey, at least you can tweet about what you had for breakfast this morning to the mindless masses and look really cool while doing it.

That's what really matters in life right?

Uhm, I'm older than Steve Jobs and I already knew well that I didn't have to fit into the status quo, and have taught my daughter and grandkids that too. STEVE JOBS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!! If you knew anything about the history of Apple or Silicon Valley, you would know that he is only a PR "guru" -- he was NOT an engineer and he did not develop anything!!!! But he was handsome and charismatic and so was the face for other people's work. He treated people around him with disdain, was miserly, and cheated some people out of what they deserved in stock options. I think it's time to appreciate The Woz while he is alive. He was the real genius behind the original product, not the more handsome "face" of it, and he was -- and continues to be -- a fair and honest human being.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha, I know, right? All the people who were instrumental at bringing about radical change in this country before Steve Jobs really didn't know what they were doing until he came along. :P

I find it particularly telling that these "logical and sane" free thinkers can't seem to put two and two together to save their lives.

Thank you for reading and for your comment Lola.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Hear Hear!
(Especially about iTunes.)

Thanks Hollan.

;)

Let me guess: Andrei, you were a little gamer nerd (it's ok, so was I), and your constant exposure to PCs acclimated you to 'good enough.' You were spoonfed the idea that Apple products are all about looks, they're 'for fags,' and for people who don't know how to use computers. Of course, at whatever point in time this was you had no idea about the passion and love that was put into Apple (if it was during the 90's that's understandable since the suits that took over Apple messed things up). Either way it never dawned on you that technology should be about people and what they can do with it. Steve Jobs, through his and other Apple leader's decisions and such, made it easier than ever for musicians to create, designers to design, and developers to develop whatever they could dream up.

Andrei - Steve Jobs was not a genius by any means. He was at the right place at the right time, with the right state of mind.

Computers have become an integral part of our communications with the world - so I can see how the idea that you've been doing it wrong all along threatens your world view and pisses you off. Is it not worth it to pay more for someone to care about the experience we have with what has become (whether you like it or not) our window into the world.

You're disdain for connectedness (which you refer to too many times) is irrelevant to the discussion of what makes him an inspirational figure. What is relevant is his honest desire to make the best thing he could.

Let me point out that most of the people creating the things that will change the world over the next 50 years are doing it with the help of a mac. Where do you think all the 'noise' about his death is coming from? I'll give you a hint - most of it is not from the midwest....

you win, Andrei TrosTROLL

Andrei Trostel's picture

Nope, wrong, and completely missed the whole point. Nice try though.

It isn't me that is being spoon fed the bullshit here.

I'm talking about reality and you are talking about pure fantasy.

"Let me point out that most of the people creating the things that will change the world over the next 50 years are doing it with the help of a mac."

I'm sorry, did I miss the fact that Apple created a time machine while I wrote this article? You already know what will change the world over the next 50 years and you know it was done with a mac?

Actual 2011 Facts/Stats:
11% of personal computers are Apples.
The iPhone accounts for 17.25% of smart phones and only 4.2 percent of all phones.

Where do I think all the 'noise' about his death is coming from? That's easy, the extremely vocal minority, where the 'noise' usually comes from.

I did appreciate the Andrei TrosTROLL though, that cracked me up.

"The extremely vocal minority," if by that you mean most of silicon valley, it's entrepreneurs and the technologically savvy, not to mention the segment of the population that tends to be more educated and in technical fields (google it if you care). I hate to sound like an elitist prick, so I won't mention fiscal success (doh), but it's true.

Did you see how many macs were at TechCrunch Disrupt this year?

Ofcourse, none of this means anything - if what works for you works, great. Some of us are hungry though. :)

Andrei Trostel's picture

By "the extremely vocal minority" I actually meant ALL Apple users.

Here, I'll post it again just to be clear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

Not for nothing, but zombies are hungry too. :P

GE's picture

You're assuming there is a correlation between the percentage of Steve Jobs mourners and Mac's share of market place against PC. That is a failed argument.

As I see it, any educated computer user should be grateful for the windows style user interface Steve Jobs created. After all, because Bill Gates stole that interface, one hundred percent of the market place is running software that was principally designed by Steve Jobs. Also, you're forgetting to factor in the iPhone/iPhone clone (Evo, Droid, Storm) customers which all carry something that was also principally designed by Steve Jobs. Again also, you're forgetting all of the people with iPods. You're also forgetting all of the people who think iTunes is actually a pretty fair deal considering the nature of record companies and other services like Music Match (I once purchased an album from Music Match and it came to me in a file called a .wmf that could not be burned to disk or put on an MP3 player or moved to another computer. I never made that mistake again.).

What you may realize is that "the extremely vocal minority" might actually be a subset of the extremely large majority of people who liked/appreciated Steve Jobs for making their lives better. As we know, the majority of people of like or hate something do not say anything. And, in fact, when people do speak out, they are more likely to spout hatred than a positive comment. So when you realize that you anti-Jobs rant is in the minority, a predicated assumption of the article itself, you are actually writing an article of which a large majority will be against. This obviously doesn't mean your article won't be successful but it does mean that you are actually part of the vocal extreme minority, which on a site such as this can be quite successful. Look at the success of Martin Stanley's piece on types of Marines. Despite the fact that Marines are one of the smallest minorities in the US, that is one of the most popular articles written on this site.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Except the statistics for the article doesn't reflect that in the least. In fact, quite the opposite, those against the article are still very clearly in the minority and as you know, I am certainly not going out of my way to keep it hidden from Apple product users. ;)

As far as "educated computer user" goes, you should really check out the interesting video series down below which clearly speaks to the fact that Steve Jobs did NOT "create" all that you think he created.

This is all a prime example of why icons and fanaticism is so often rooted in misinformation and blind following. It's so much easier to just close your eyes and follow rather than actually research, think and draw your own conclusions about reality.

Weijore, I'm actually kind of fascinated that you can achieve and articulate against this anti-fanatic behavior so easily when it comes to religion, but then exhibit the same identical behavior when it comes to this subject matter. Please don't get me wrong, that isn't meant as a dig or anything, just an interesting observation.

GE's picture

I'm afraid that your comment is vague enough that I'm not sure what you're talking about specifically. Are you rejecting the theory that people comment more because they are offended by an argument rather than because they agree with it? Or, are you accepting that theory but rejecting the theory that you're in the vocal minority?

If you're suggesting the former, then I think you've pointed out the weakness of the theory because it isn't founded in data analysis. If you're suggesting the latter, then I think that you're not factoring in the overwhelming amount of support in favor of Jobs outside of your article. And possibly, there may be other reasons for the statistics seeming to suggest you're in the majority. Or, your analysis of the data from this article is flawed.

As far as being a fanatic of Steve Jobs, I think you're being cynical, and I find it annoying. Please stop belittling the things I have to say by attacking my character. It's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Furthermore, I think your assertion's implication that I exhibit fanatical behavior has been left completely unsupported. How am I supposed to take your assertions seriously, if you don't offer any support for your argument? If you're going to make implied arguments, don't forget to support your claims and explain their relevance.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Yeah, unfortunately Weijore I'm going to have to remain vague about the statistics and data analysis in this regard in order to not pull aside the curtain and expose the wizard if you will. I'll give you a hint though, your answer is usually at the bottom of every single webpage you visit on the internet. As far as accurate statistics and data analysis goes though, I can assure you that I've got it covered in that department. ;)

On the contrary Weijore, I'm not trying to belittle the things you are saying by attacking your character, quite the opposite actually. I'm simply surprised and fascinated by the things you are saying BECAUSE they are so out of your normal character.

Here let me articulate it a little more flatteringly.

One of the things that I have always found admirable about you is that despite what I can only describe as the "Weijore reality fog" you have always had this uncanny ability for clarity when it came to cutting through all the bullshit surrounding religion and its so often erroneous dogma in the face of actual facts and history. You never seem to subscribe to all the fanatical/iconic religious propaganda that I can only imagine has been shoved down your throat your entire life and I actually think that quality to break free of that mob-like, blind, horseshit behavior is one of your greatest qualities.

You're simply not applying that here for whatever reason, whether it is because you like belonging to something that you think is cool and hip, or you simply look up to Steve Jobs for all the wrong reasons ignoring the reality of his dickish personality. In doing so, you've sacrificed one of the best pieces of your personality and "for all intensive purposes" have picked up a bible and are now going door to door with the rest of the sheep.

You're better than that and you know it.

GE's picture

I don't think being arrogant is all that bad. Too me, the reason I hate arrogant people is because they can't back up what they say. In that way, those people are being dishonest about their place in the hierarchy.

But, I appreciate a man that has the balls to say, "I'm the greatest. I'm the king of the world," when he has the ability to back it up. We may forget that Mohammed Ali was perceived to be a dick because he said those things and he refused to be drafted into the armed forces. But when we look back at who he was, we can see that he was the greatest. In my mind he wasn't being arrogant because he wasn't lying. He was right.

So, if Steve Jobs occasionally made people feel like he thought he was the smartest person in the room, I don't give a shit. He probably was. It's not like he was always sitting in a room with Steven Hawking. The man was confident and if he said he's the smartest, I don't doubt that he was.

Being perceived as a dick is part of being great. You can't be great without being a dick. Jesus couldn't say, "I'm the son of god which means I'm god," without seeming like a dick. But, he isn't perceived as a dick. Part of the reason we don't think of Jesus as being a dick is because of the other things he supposedly did and said and because it's nearly impossible to say he wasn't god, no matter how unlikely. (But, that's a different debate) Plus, to say Jesus was an arrogant dick would ignore the possibility that he was just crazy. It's hard to be an arrogant dick when you're crazy. I guess that's the difference between Jobs and Jesus. Jobs said, "I'm the smartest." Jesus said, "I'm god." Jobs was right, and Jesus was probably wrong.

I don't know all that he did or didn't do, but what I do know is that the companies that he ran drove innovation and excellence when he ran them. Like Thomas Edison, who did not invent the light bulb, Jobs gets the credit for the inventions and other innovations that his company produced because he, like Edison, ran the organization. What Jobs greatest innovation was getting out of the way of talented people and allowing and demanding that they create at the peak of their ability. The results of his style of management are the products of Apple and Pixar, which have been routinely the best products of any company in their market. This has forced other companies to re-adjust their ideas of how to manage creative people. Jobs' legacy is allowing an ensemble of talented people to create great things.

Andrei Trostel's picture

It's interesting to me that as time goes by the discussion always seems to change from arguing against him being a dick to basically, "Yeah, okay, he was a dick, but he was really smart, a good business man and his company made really cool shit."

I'm pretty sure that is what I've been saying all along...but still a dick none the less.

;)

GE's picture

My point is that jobs wasn't a dick. He was great and people resented that. People thought he was arrogant because they were envious of him and chose to believe they were as smart and important as Steve Jobs. So for people to say he was a dick, is to actually show that they are the dick. It's the same with old people who still call Mohammad Ali Cassius Clay to spite his Ali's choice to become a Black Muslim. It shows more about the person who says it than about the man Ali really was. With Jobs it's similar. There is a disconnect between what some envious people thought about him and who Jobs really was. I know that Jobs wasn't a dick because he ran the most ethical (in regards to worker treatment and respect each individual's unique/important input) and highly successful businesses in the world. Hitler was a dick because his philosophy was fucked up. Jobs wasn't because his philosophy made the lives of his workers better and in turn we all benefitted from their great work environment.

Andrei Trostel's picture

"There is a disconnect between what some envious people thought about him and who Jobs really was."

Boy you just said a mouthful.

There's a disconnect alright, but I think your analysis of where the envy really lies, with regards to the disconnect, is as backwards as the blind sheep, zombie, starry eyed fanaticism.

Revealed: Inside the Chinese suicide sweatshop where workers toil in 34-hour shifts to make your iPod.

I'm curious though, when going door to door preaching the Apple word, how does one thump the iPad without cracking the screen?

GE's picture

The writer of that article didn't even attempt objectivity.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Oh for fuck's sake, what's it going to take? Do you need Steve Jobs to rise from the grave and tell you himself?

Here you go:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8324867/Apples-child-labour-...

Is an actual 2011 progress report from Apple objective enough for you? When that first apparently non-objective article broke, Steve Jobs leaped into action to try and clean it all up and yet it still worsened. Also are you telling me he had no idea what his factories in China were like before that? You think he didn't know about it UNTIL a news report broke about it? Give me a freakin' break with this blind devotion crap, will you?

I mean did Steve Jobs have amazing attention to detail or not, because you really can't have it both ways.

Enlightened free thinkers my ass, more like a bunch of crack whores clamoring over each other in order to fellate Steve Jobs's corpse on the off chance it might breathe some life into him so you can maybe get your next hit.

GE's picture

According to the article you posted, there is no evidence that Apple was complicit with sweat shop like companies' activities. They could have believed what their subcontractors were telling them. No American company, ethical or not, wants to be involved or associated with sweat shops. Subcontractors know this and because of that they, apparently, started to lie. You cannot blame Apple for being lied to. That's like saying Hilary cigar fucked Monic because she believed Bill didn't.

After Apple found out what was happening they took actions that no other company has. It audited and published the audit of the working conditions of its workers and has continued to ensure ethical treatment of its workers.

That is proof of greater ethical standards than any other company.

Not a dick.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Again, are you telling me Steve Jobs (the control oversee freak that he was) had no idea what his factories in China were like before that article broke and he wasn't just ONLY THEN doing something about it, because he had a massive PR cluster fuck on his hands to clean up? He never ONCE toured the factories, let alone went there each and every time a new product started development to ensure they were doing things to HIS apparently amazing standards? That's just horseshit and you know it. On top of that, read the report, he took actions and some of the problems actually got worse.

"Hitler was a dick because his philosophy was fucked up. Jobs wasn't because his philosophy made the lives of his workers better and in turn we all benefited from their great work environment."

Extreme example time to prove a point:
I suppose if Hitler closed a few concentration camps AFTER the world found out about them, but still kept others open while improving some conditions and allowed others to get worse yet, he wouldn't have been a dick because he "technically" would have made the lives of his workers better, right? Maybe Hitler's concentration camp subordinates lied to him too about the actual conditions of the camps, does that absolve Hitler also? I mean, do you hear yourself when you are selling this crap?

Again, give me a freakin' break with this blind devotion, proselytizing, iPad (Bible) thumping, acolyte horseshit, will you?

It's okay to admit that Steve Jobs was a dick and that you actually didn't know any of this stuff before, no one is going to take your precious (iPhone) away if you do, Sméagol.

GE's picture

There was no evidence that Jobs knew what was going on before hand, in that article. You're assuming he must have known what his subcontractors were doing because he was detail oriented. And that, he is therefore responsible for their actions.

Oscar Schindler was a subcontractor for Hitler that lied to Hitler and saved over a thousand lives. Hitler, being also detail oriented, doesn't get credit for saving their lives because he paid for the factory Schindler operated because Schindler lied to Hitler so he wouldn't stop what he was doing.

In Jobs case it seems the opposite situation occured where the factory management lied to Apple.

Andrei Trostel's picture

"You go in this place and it's a factory but, my gosh, they've got restaurants and movie theatres and hospitals and swimming pools. For a factory, it's pretty nice. I actually think Apple does one of the best jobs of any company in the industry and maybe any industry of understanding the working conditions in the supply chain." -Steve Jobs

Yeah, I'm sure you're right, I mean everyone knows that the responsibility of a company and its corrupt business practices shouldn't ever fall on the CEO of that company. That just wouldn't make any kind of ethical sense, would it? Wait, WHAT?!

It's probably all just lies and there is some other reason why Apple Inc. ranked last out of 29 global technology companies in terms of responsiveness and transparency to health and environmental concerns in China. I'm sure when Apple was listed as a "sweatshop brand" in a report compiled by 36 environmental groups, led by the Institute of Public and Environmental Affairs (IPE) and Friends of Nature, because it "based its mass production on subcontractors, without proper protections in the workplace" it was probably more likely that it was because those 36 environmental groups preferred PCs to Macs.

GE's picture

Again, you're assuming/speculating in an implied argument that Jobs was lying. He might not have been aware of what was going on. As far as that article is concerned, it basically says that as soon as those studies were released Apple went into action to create better work environments by various means, including implementing a very transparent auditing process.

So, it appears that Jobs took responsibility because he was a leader, but it seems to me that he could have been lied to by unethical subcontractors. After all, subcontractors who force terrible working conditions upon their works are likely to think nothing of lying to a business partner, if it means they get the contract. Until you can show evidence that Apple corp. knew about the actual conditions of their subcontractors factories, it will be hard for you to imply that they were complicit with the unethical activities in their subcontractors factories.

Andrei Trostel's picture

I'm sorry, did you miss the part where Steve Jobs actually addressed it HIMSELF saying he saw the facilities and stated that he didn't think there is anything wrong with them, followed by admitting that Apple understands the working conditions in the supply chain better than anyone? Words from his own mouth doesn't actually assume anything and leaves very little to speculation.

For fuck's sake man, at least try and "Think Different."

I mean at this point it's like that teacher from Charlie Brown, but the Apple version.

GE's picture

Jobs was talking about one factory that he went to, saying, "You go in THIS place..." and,
"for A factory, it's pretty nice." You would need to find out which of the factories he was talking about, what Steve Jobs definitely saw there, and how that is different from what he said of that specific place to establish that he was lying.

Andrei Trostel's picture

He's specifically talking about the factory building at Foxconn (one of Apple's largest suppliers) in the township of Longhua, in southern Guangdong province, China. You know, the one where he installed bars on the windows and nets around the entire building to stop the employees from jumping to their deaths due to the harsh working conditions.

Weijore, the more and more you speak about Steve Jobs, the more and more it becomes infinitely clear that you actually haven't followed much of anything regarding him or the Apple company and are just blindly following while spouting things for simply the sake of debate. Steve Jobs defending the factory conditions at Foxconn and admitting that they personally go into their factories regularly, was well documented at the D: All Things Digital conference in 2010. This isn't some hearsay that needs proving or anything by me. The man thought the conditions were good while 36 environmental groups labelled it "a sweatshop."

Steve Jobs Interview (at the 2010 D: All Things Digital conference) defending Foxconn working conditions.

I love how the masses who claim to be "the radical free thinkers" are now the ones blindly and fervently defending the billion dollar, corrupt, big business corporation and its dick CEO.

Congratulations, you've all sold your humanity, individuality and intelligence to a brilliant salesman, for a pretty phone.

Please call me when you collectively pull your heads out of your asses and remember, don't drink the Kool-Aid.

GE's picture

Next time include your source when you quote something.

From that video, Foxconn had a suicide rate that was half that of the US. That does not suggest that Foxconn is a sweat shop. And, the idea that preventing people from committing suicide and providing therapy to anyone who needs it is somehow evidence of wrong doing is illogical.

They are preventing people from killing themselves. That is a good thing. They are providing therapy. These people are not slave labor. They can quit. They also choose to kill themselves half as often as US citizens. There was no real problem according to the credible sources you've provided.

You still haven't proven that Jobs was lying. In fact, you've provided evidence that supports a claim that he wasn't a dick.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Yeah, I probably should have also included after the quote his exact GPS location, the time of day, his blood pressure, his white blood cell count and his respiration, because that would have let you know more definitively who said it. Silly me for just putting his full name as the source, I can see how that would be confusing and ambiguous to you.

I don't have to suggest that Foxconn is a sweat shop. As I stated before, it has already been labelled as one by the 36 environmental groups, led by the Institute of Public and Environmental Affairs (IPE) and Friends of Nature, for numerous different violations and not JUST the suicides. I posted that quote/interview to prove via his own mouth that he was well aware of the working conditions, because he had been to the factories numerous times (like I said) and even went as far as to defend the working conditions there. It was addressing your comment of "He might not have been aware of what was going on." That statement is just ridiculous and you would know how ridiculous of a statement that is if you actually knew anything about Apple or Steve Jobs past thinking you look really cool playing on your pretty phone.

By the way, I love how your Steve Jobs rhetoric went from "great working conditions" to "They are preventing people from killing themselves. That is a good thing. They are providing therapy. These people are not slave labor. They can quit." HAHA! That's hilarious. It makes me want to move to China and start working in an Apple factory right away, because it sounds so nice and good for the employees...Um, no.

You'll forgive me if I don't include my source with those last few quotes even if it is probably necessary in order to avoid more confusion.

Steve Jobs is a dick, because he knew full well that he ran a company that ran sweatshops, in addition to all the other evidence already given, which you would see is ALL well documented, most of it by Steve Jobs himself, if you don't close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and shout, "LA LA LA LA!"

You can delude yourself as much as you like, it doesn't change the fact that Steve Jobs was a dick.

GE's picture

The point was that people aren't killing themselves because of their jobs. If anything they have found a way to create a situation where people are less likely to want to die. So in that way, you could say that the suicide rate actually suggests that the working conditions are better for the average worker at Foxconn than the average job in the US. The data suggests the opposite conclusion that you've made.

Again, stop attacking me. Who I am has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. I could ask deeper questions about your motivation for avoiding the facts of the situation. But, I have repeatedly not done that because it's irrelevant to this discussion. I would appreciate it if you would stay on topic.

Andrei Trostel's picture

No, the point was that Steve Jobs was a dick and knowingly did a whole lot of horseshit that is widely seen as douche-baggy and furthermore was well aware of it all and frankly didn't give a damn.

Let's be clear here, I'm not the one avoiding the facts of the situation and I would appreciate it if YOU would stay on topic and stop trying to create debates where there simply isn't any. The place IS a sweatshop. You can wave your arms all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it has already been labelled a sweatshop by the environmental groups and organizations that went there to inspect it. There is NO debate on the matter.

Weijore, I'm not attacking your personality, I'm attacking a mindless zombified way of thinking and I can't help that, for whatever reason, you are championing that way of thinking when you are clearly smart enough to see past it. If you don't like the way I am portraying the zombified, blind sheep, mindless acolyte, starry eyed fanaticism attitude then you could always, "Think Different."

Hey, I have an idea, why don't you go buy and read his biography and then we'll talk.

Time to wake up sleepy head.

;)

GE's picture

Support your argument and leave me out of it.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Weijore, I would love to leave you out of arguments, but so often, it just seems impossible.

;)

(#1 reason people didn't/don't call Jesus a dick -- if He happens to be right, whomever is calling Him a Dick is going to hell!)

Andrei Trostel's picture

It's cool, I went over Jesus's head and filed a formal complaint. :P

Are You There God? It's Me, Andrei

GE's picture

I guess that means the number one reason people didn't call Jesus a dick was because they were more humble than Jesus.

Andrei Trostel's picture
GE's picture

hahaha

:^P

I posted that video series below, and the idea isn't that he didn't create anything, but rather that the way in which we as a society look at creation is flawed. If Steve Jobs wasn't there at the right time, the inevitable would have happened at some point - as all of the pawns on the board moved blindly around they would have come together at some point, but Steve, a rare player of a human, saw what was inevitable and made it happen NOW.

The reasons I (also) hate religion and love Apple's philosophies are one in the same - logic. Logic tells me that a torn up piece of paper written by men can't possibly be evidence for what's written in it. Similarly, logic tells me that the tool I use to communicate and interact with the world (largely), is one I want to be designed with the greatest attention to detail - and that's what makes me an apple user.

Andrei Trostel's picture

The problem I have is that religious fanaticism and Apple/Steve Jobs fanaticism often share the same illogical thought processes, demonstrated time and time again, by ignoring the actual facts.

If people said, "Yeah he's a dick, but the products are cool and I appreciate the attention to detail in a lot of them" then I'd be all good.

It is the one man show, he's a saint, blind sheep, Jesus freak adoration that I simply can't get behind. (With anything. A lot of PC users demonstrate this horseshit behavior too, but I've noticed it WAY more with the Apple crowd.)

Just like religion, Steve Jobs/Apple is great in many respects, but also really abhorrent in others. I'm just asking for a little enlightened thought from the people who are constantly claiming to be more enlightened and thinking outside of the box.

;)

"As I see it, any educated computer user should be grateful for the windows style user interface Steve Jobs created. After all, because Bill Gates stole that interface, one hundred percent of the market place is running software that was principally designed by Steve Jobs"

An educated computer user would have at least done some research to get his/her facts straight rather than take what other iSheep spew out as fact, which is something you failed to do, so by your own definition, you're an uneducated computer user... The window style GUI with grid like icon placement was designed by Xerox PARC (now just PARC, Palo Alto Research Center), not Apple or Steve Jobs... Which makes one hundred percent of the market place running software that was NOT designed by Steve Jobs... But nice try anyways, next time you should educate yourself instead of repeating random, false factoids you hear from other iSheep, that way you won't make yourself look like a fool, like you have here.

"Also, you're forgetting to factor in the iPhone/iPhone clone (Evo, Droid, Storm) customers which all carry something that was also principally designed by Steve Jobs."

Wrong again... Android is not a clone of iOS, Android was in development since 2003, long before the iPhone or iOS was even a glimmer in Steve Jobs' eye. There were prototype Android phones before the iPhone was even announced... Furthermore, smartphones existed before the iPhone was announced, let alone released, with the same grid like home screen UI, candy bar form factor, touchscreen and so on...

And THAT is what really grinds my gears about all you iSheep, you seem to think Steve Jobs and/or Apple invented everything that has anything to do with technology, which couldn't be further from the truth... Hell listening to you guys talk, it sounds as if Apple/Steve Jobs invented everything such as mobile phones, smartphones, mobile operating systems, apps, app stores, the digital music industry, the digital movie industry, downloading, laptops, aluminum, glass, rectangular devices with round corners, media players, touchscreens, multi-touch, multi-touch gestures, tablets, window style GUI, grid style icon placement and so on... I think you get my point...

GE's picture

Hey, a reasonable argument. That's not fair. haha.

Well, I will concede the fact that Jobs didn't design the interface. And, I will go a bit farther and say, he probably didn't design anything. It seems that he just saw the possibilities of other people's designs and demanded it be made better. Xerox was Vivaldi. IBM was Bach. Apple is Mozart.

If you're honest with yourself, you'll have to concede that the core Apple products -- which include warrantees, in-store services, customer support, and the devices themselves -- are flat-out superior to anything other manufacturers are able to produce. They offer products that are in and of themselves arguably the best and then they add to them product specific customer support in-store. For a user that wants the fewest hassles with their technology, there is no better choice than Apple.

Also, Google is Beethoven and Microsoft is Nickleback.

Andrei Trostel's picture

If you're honest with yourself you'll have to concede that most of your arguments were baseless and uneducated and only now, after the paradigm of actual reality has shifted, are you able to say that m1ndtr1p's comment was a reasonable argument when in fact I was making the exact same argument back in October.

"Steve Jobs did NOT "create" all that you think he created."

"This is all a prime example of why icons and fanaticism is so often rooted in misinformation and blind following. It's so much easier to just close your eyes and follow rather than actually research, think and draw your own conclusions about reality."

My guess is that you finally read the authorized biography and were simply forced to have to face reality.

"For a user that wants the fewest hassles with their technology, there is no better choice than Apple." <-Unless of course you need to change a simple fucking battery.

I'll concede that maybe Steve Jobs was Wagner, but only because Wagner's first name was Richard...(i.e. Dick).

:P

Andrei Trostel's picture

Isn't it funny how all the people who claim to be free thinkers and tech savvy are actually just a bunch of blind, starry eyed, uneducated, fanboy, sheep?

So much for "Think Different."

Thank you for your comment and not for nothing, but the line "rectangular devices with round corners" cracked me up.

Congratulations. Your such an educated computer user! You're right Steve jobs didn't invent anything... He connected the dots in a very insightful way and brought the products of that earl insight to the average person.

What did people's comPuters look like before the Apple 1? Like shit. Like the Altair. Like giant mainframes.

What did the average peraon's personal computer look like before the Macintosh? Oh yeah, like the apple 2. Xerox parc gets credit where credit is due for its early experimentation with the GUI, but it is Apple that saw the potential and exploited it. Most of the interaction metaphors we are used to today are largely based on what came to populate the mac's screen, not PARC's early variant of it - while yes, PARC had the first GUI, it is Apple's design which has had the most impact.

Citing Android's existence before the iPhone is laughable. The android of lee-2007 looked nothing like the android of today (like a laggy, ugly version of iOS).
http://www.quora.com/Android-OS/What-did-Android-look-like-before-the-iP...

A button driven, feature-phone type interface. Until 2007 that is.

No apple didnt invent touhscreens, but they brought them to life at the right time, bein the first to provide a functional, smooth implementation of them. To this day android has yet to match iOS's fluidity.

Same goes for voice control - yes google had vice actions but they are dismissible compared to Siri.

Windows has taken design cues from OSx, and windows phone is actually innovai e for once. It's a trend that's happening throughout the industry - a focus on good design for the sake of good design. That's the greatest contribution of Steve jobs - he cared.

Andrei Trostel's picture

He cared, unless you happened to be his abandoned daughter, or pretty much any other human being in his path, then...not so much. But yes, he cared about the color of things...and um...how shiny something should be, like a lot, so that totally makes him an amazing human being. Because as a species we measure how enlightened we are by how shiny and pretty our possessions are. I mean, isn't that the Buddhist way, or was it the anti-materialist way? Wait, which one did he claim to subscribe to again? I can never remember.

Actually, the world of computers owes a LOT more to folks like Dr. Dennis Ritchie, a REAL revolutionary, who came up with the theory, and then implemented it, so that programs would not be dedicated to a single type of machine, but could be used by as many as possible. He was responsible for the C program language, Unix and its offshoots such as Linux.

These things, more than any iGadgets, make the internet possible, since this is the language servers use. This is also the programming that made Apple possible, too, since Apple's internet browsers and other software are BASED on Dr. Ritchie's theories AND Dr. Ritchie's genius.

Dennis Ritchie died close to the same time as Steve Jobs, but didn't get ANY of the outpouring of grief, even though he was MORE responsible for implementing communications via computer. Hell, I didn't even know who Dennis Ritchie was, until I read about him in This Is True's Honorary Unsubscribe.

http://www.honoraryunsubscribe.com/dennis_ritchie.html

I was a REAL dick(ess?) for that lack of knowledge, for certain!

Andrei Trostel's picture

It's funny that all these people on the cutting edge of technology missed that, huh? :P

Dennis Ritchie was actually alive when I wrote this article, but like Wangari Maathai, he is now unfortunately another stellar example of my closing statement.

"If we as a generation are going to claim to be on the cutting edge of advancements that make the world a better place, we might want to start acting like it."

Thank you so much for posting about him.

;)

You're right, Dennis Ritchie deserves a lot more credit than he gets in the mainstream. He played a fundamental role in the early development of computer science. He's kinda like the US military - anonymous, keeping us safe at night. Steve Jobs 'offerings' to the world are simply more accessible, philosophical and artistic in nature.

An interesting watch, while we're on the topic of invention, art, and genius : http://www.everythingisaremix.info/watch-the-series/
there are three videos with a fourth one coming out in a couple weeks.

Andrei Trostel's picture

That was actually REALLY fascinating and I think speaks volumes about the level of awareness of people who think any one person is responsible for innovation. I highly recommend watching these three short videos and certainly look forward to the fourth one.

I particularly liked the Henry Ford quote (at the end of part 3) with regard to this Steve Jobs discussion, specifically the part that said,

"To teach that a comparatively few men are responsible for the greatest forward steps of mankind is the worst kind of nonsense." -Henry Ford

Thank you for posting that.

Jobs made it acceptable to sell a battery-powered electronic device where the user cannot replace the battery himself. Fucking douchebag.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha!

I know, right?

So much for "steps in favor of the user" and feeling a responsibility to the user.

:P

GE's picture

He also made a policy where anyone with a broken eight hundred dollar frisbee could have their phone replaced once for free regardless of it was an accident. Unfortunately, that policy died with the release of the iPhone4s after Apple hemorrhaged hundreds of millions of dollars a year in free phones to people whose kids didn't understand the value of an eight hundred dollar piece of glass in their pocket.

Andrei Trostel's picture

All I know is that those at the "genius bar" can't seem to change a fucking battery.

:P

Ahh ok guys stop arguing, my inbox has been flooded with notifications... Jobs is dead, apple will go on for a time and people that will continue to buy 'simple minded' products will continue to do so - unless people stop acting like clones people like Jobs will go on making big $$$.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Hey not for nothing, but you can click the "Notify me when new comments are posted" box off, or follow the link in your emails that says, "Stop receiving emails when someone comments on this post."

That way your inbox won't be flooded with notifications if you don't want them.

;)

I stumbled upon this article by checking the sidebar of this site, its title really caught my eye. I came to this site by randomly web surfing to alleviate boredom. That being said I can't begin to express how grateful I am for this chance discovery. Mr. Trostel you are my new hero. You were not afraid to go against the grain, speak your mind, and you intelligently and articulately defended what you said and believe in. And it's been entertaining to boot! Bravo, sir. I always thought Jobs was a douche for purely speculative and superficial reasons being the jaded misanthrope that I am. But now you have educated me on the man and in so doing you have vindicated my disdain for him. I second that its in poor taste to speak ill of the (recently, anyway) dead and am not glad a human died. However I am always a proponent of telling it like it is and I'm glad a dickhead is being called out for what he was. Especially when its amidst the myriad sentiments and praise a person's now retired existence is receiving due to what you so appropriately dubbed "he died, thus he's now a saint syndrome." I will be sharing the link to this page with all of my friends (I know, I know, I have friends. What kind of misanthrope am I? ;) )

Andrei Trostel's picture

I'm really glad you enjoyed the article. Although, I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of being anyone's hero given the content and subject matter of this article/comment section.

That said, I sincerely appreciate your comment and thank you so much for reading and for your kind words.

;)

Hey if it makes you feel any better Andrei you're not /really/ my hero. I was just being complimentary ;)

Andrei Trostel's picture

Oh good, because I would feel even more uncomfortable if you asked me to pay you while I was being your pretend hero. :P

C'mon, the guy is a dead dick. Digging out his bones this way makes him looks better. Let him rest in iPeace.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Steve Jobs was a Buddhist and the Third Noble Truth in Buddhism is all about eliminating delusion, thereby reaching a liberated state of Enlightenment.

I'm just doing my part to eliminate delusion.

;)

It's funny because now when you die, we'll all think of you as an asshole ^.^

Andrei Trostel's picture

That's fine, I'm o.k. with that, but I'm not sure why you would wait until I die. You're welcome to think I'm an asshole now. Just be realistic with your thoughts and not in some kind of fanatical, delusional, zombie acolyte fog while doing it. That's all I ask.

Also, for those of you who don't think I'm an asshole, please don't run out and buy out all the hair extensions in the world, because that would just be fucking crazy.

:P

writer on writer hate. i love it.

Andrei Trostel's picture

iHate no one, not even Steve Jobs who was a total dick.

Listen here ashole I hope when you died somebody writes a essay about how much people dislike you. And I hope you go to hell oh and I hope you die a miserable death. If you do please write us a essay on it. Do you know what I would love to see the day somebody gets pissed off with you and opens a court case and su's the living daylights out of you. And the sooner you die the better for us all. You stuffed up ashole.

Andrei Trostel's picture

I will definitely write an essay from beyond the grave and because of the confusion of how that is even remotely possible, it will be aptly titled, "Did He Died?"

Mike Lamb's picture

Why do you hate the living?

Damned right he was a NWO "New Ager" Buddist Hindu freak on LSD, who thought taking Acid Trips was a path to Enlightenment.
I find it interesting also how many of the socalled "celebrities" who die young nowadays all seem to die of "a rare form of cancer" which no one else has had before them. Truth be told that rare cancer is in fact AIDS, and that fact could be clearly seen in Jobs over the past couple of years.
The IPad was never an innovated idea of his own anyway, as any trekkie could a test too, the crew of STNG was using the devices on the show back in 1987.
The Bitten Apple symbol (Mac) and the fact he was obviously a fag, along with his Indian Hindu Spiritual beliefs and thinking he was a God, spells out who this person was really working for. But try getting mindless moron clones hooked on their Iphones and IPads to recognise this, even though it's staring them in the face, literally!!!

Do I care if he's dead? NO!!! Did he ever do anything for me? NO!!! Is the world a better place because of him? NO!!! Did he help anyone but himself? NO!!! Who was the most important person in the world to Jobs? Steve Jobs!!!

Good Riddance!

Buddhists don't believe in a god so obviously he didn't think he was a god

Andrei Trostel's picture

Not for nothing, but Buddhists don't believe in being a dick to everyone either.

Karma's a bitch.

Just saying.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Do I even remotely want to be associated with you or your backwoods ignorant horseshit ideas? NO!!!

Also, way to go, you just killed the souls of trekkies everywhere.

Nice hair, faggot. Did your boyfriend curl it for you before or after he nailed your butt hole?

Andrei Trostel's picture

I always find it so fascinating that it's always the homophobes who are overly concerned with what other men's hair looks like. Personally, I couldn't give two shits about other men's hair, but then I'm straight so I guess that's why.

GE's picture

Turning a homophobic slur into an implied insult that suggests the homophobe is gay isn't an effective way to show you're not a homophobe. In that situation a person is still pointing at being gay as being bad. "I'm not gay, you homophobe. You're probably gay," is a dumb argument.

Andrei Trostel's picture

We've been over this Weijore, sometimes when arguing with a moron you have to use moronic language or they simply won't understand and wander off to look at the nearest shiny object. The most frightening thing for a homophobe is the idea that they might be gay. I like to deal with homophobes by scaring the bajesus out of them, because let's face it, it is likely the bajesus that is making them homophobic. Also, no one has ever given me a good answer as to why a straight man would spend so much time thinking about my hair, which I've always found fascinating.

You know, when I see a baby in the street, I also say, "Goo goo ga ga." Yeah, I know it's dumb, but yet somehow they understand.

Great article! "...made me consistently want to stab you people in the iRepeatedly" - pure gold.

Dick or not, Jobs is getting way too much emotion for a bloke who simply made computers, and as you say, was no Mother Teresa. I wonder if Bill Gates would get the same emotional outpouring.

Cheers!

Andrei Trostel's picture

Thank you, I appreciate that.

"I wonder if Bill Gates would get the same emotional outpouring?"

Well certainly Dennis Ritchie didn't get the same emotional outpouring as Steve Jobs did which I guess lets us all know just how "technologically aware" the Steve Jobs acolytes are.

Well said Andrei. Was a joy to read that I'm not alone in my dislike for the man and his inferior products.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Wow, I had no idea he was like that! Glad to see someone who actually knew him reveal what he was really like, thanks Andrei!

Andrei Trostel's picture

I didn't actually know him, I just know he was a dick. In addition, I didn't actually know Hitler, I just know he was a dick. You get the idea. ;)

GE's picture

Keep in mind, no one is saying Jobs is the same as Hitler. Unless, you think a dick is the same as a dick.

Andrei Trostel's picture

No, certainly Steve Jobs was NOT the same as Hitler. Like all dicks, there are certainly different magnitudes. It's just an extreme example to debunk the logic that you have to know someone in order to know they were a dick.

GE's picture

I think you need to write a follow up article on the spectrum of dicks. Though, I suspect you're too straight for such an idea.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Weijore, if I've told you once, I've told you a million times...I'm not interested in your crazy ideas about where to put a dick.

:P

GE's picture

Homophobia is not admirable.

Andrei Trostel's picture

I'm not homophobic, I just don't want to fuck men, there's a difference. Hey, you could always go fuck yourself instead.

:P

If someone doesn't want you to put your dick in them, that makes them homophobic? So if a girl wants to fuck me, and I don't want to fuck her, does that make me heterophobic? Should we all just willingly fuck anything that wants us to? Don't answer, we already know what you're going to say.

What an enjoyable read! Thank you for speaking your mind.

Andrei Trostel's picture

You are very welcome and thank you for your kind words.

Missy K's picture

I happen to like your bouncy looking hair.
is it bad to say that the mortal combat video was my favorite part? I don't hate your article, I just love the video. Too bad you couldn't add one with Mileena in it.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Thanks Missy.

A Mileena video?

Sai...okay fine.

Here's a video just for you representing all the whining and crying over Steve Jobs.

;)

Missy K's picture

yayyy Mileena! I wanted to dress up like her...not for halloween or anything, but just because I like dressing up as random video game characters/politicians. But if I were to do that i'd be sacrificing a huge amount of my decency, because her costume is very revealing.

I bet she could give a killer blowjob, though ;D

Andrei Trostel's picture

Yeah I could see that, you should totally do it Missy, I think you could pull it off quite well.

"a killer blowjob"

HAHA! Nice one.

Her twin sister Kitana gave killer blowjobs also.

;)

Missy K's picture

she stole that move from rosie o'donnell! Ah yes, Kitana. My second true love besides her sister. Liu Kang id the best guy, and Nightwolf. I can't explain all the things i'd do to him. I mean...do FOR him.
on another note that also has nothing to do with Steve Jobs or your article, I went to starbucks the other day and my barista was this girl from high school was always really mean to me. I just felt like sharing that. It was pretty awkward, has anything like that ever happened to you?

Andrei Trostel's picture

Yeah I would have guessed that about you and Nightwolf given your Native American background.

Are you asking if anything really awkward has happened to me in coffee shops? You do read this column right Missy?

The Five Types of Morning Coffee Crazies

Five People to Mess with in Coffee Shops

;)

Andrei,

I kinda like your thinking...outside the box and very honest. Here in Uganda, people like you come from a tribe called the "bakiga". I also respect the fact that you engage in mature discourse and do not insult your critics which some other people do lots.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Thank you very much deox.

If I'm being "very honest" though and "lealy" speaking on the matter, I'm not sure the respect for engaging in mature discourse and not insulting my critics is well deserved. I think I am just a little more subtle about it than most other people.

Bakiga: "people of the mountains" <-If you only knew just how much that were true. I actually grew up in the mountains. ;)

Court Sullivan's picture

New article out on Slate, "Jobs the Jerk"

Andrei Trostel's picture

Jeez, what is wrong with people who write realistic articles about someone after they've died? Don't they know that death automatically conveys sainthood?

Thanks for posting that Court.

Interesting the way the author and some of those who comment seem to be talking more about themselves than about the life and death of Steve Jobs. The guy was great and he had some not unusual human failings that were more than offset by what he accomplished. Get over it. The odds are that, if there had been no Steve Jobs, we would not be able to now conduct this correspondence.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Get over it, he was a dick. In case you missed it, the cat has been let out of the bag that he was a dick via his authorized biography.

Also, this website wasn't created using a Mac and YOU are using Windows 7, so we would definitely be able to conduct this correspondence had there been no Steve Jobs.

;)

Bill Dixon's picture

Damn, you are like a Statcounter magician! I won't ask how you figured that out but I'm impressed.

Andrei Trostel's picture

HAHA, Yeah that's probably for the best, because if you do ask how I figured that out, I'll have to ask you why you are browsing on Firefox 7.0 and not Safari.

Tsk Tsk Bill, What would Steve Jobs say?

:P

I worked in Silicon Valley for over 19 years, including stints at startups, near-startups (Cisco, 1992), and big companies. There is a profound toxicity that is common to the Silicon Valley ethos, and it is directly attributable to men like Steve Jobs (and Bill Gates, before his post-antitrust conversion into a decent human being) who were poorly socialized, very bright men (almost no women, btw). Consider the acronym FYIFV: it stands for "Fuck You, I'm Fully Vested", and first made its appearance at companies like Microsoft and Apple, where the golden handcuffs of stock options were so strong that mgmt knew they could treat employees like chain-gang convicts and get away with it.

I could go on but the bottom line is this: I've met geniuses who were assholes - in fact, I'd argue there's a correlation between intelligence and unpleasantness, and if that's not a damning indictment of humanity, I can't think of one - and I've met geniuses who were nice guys. Not many, but a few. And Jobs was not a nice guy. HE PARKED IN HANDICAPPED SPACES, FOR CHRIST"S SAKE! Apart from burning down orphanages, what is lower than that? Maybe his vaunted belief in karma came to pass one day in Palo Alto when he was dying and needed a handicapped space but they were all occupied by Jaguars and Mercedes w/o handicapped placards.

THanks for having the temerity to speak truth to power, in this case the fan-boy mafia of Apple true-believers. Not to speak ill of the dead, but think of how much more Jobs could have done on so many issues if he'd been a nice guy and truly given a damn about his fellow passengers on spaceship Earth (to indulge in another image from the Whole Earth Catalog era that Jobs came out of).

Nothing speaks so much to Jobs' personality than that his best friend at the top was Larry Ellison. Nuff sed.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha Yeah, but at least even Larry Ellison (the CEO of Oracle Corporation) believed in philanthropy.

It's funny you mention him actually, because not more than an hour ago I was having a conversation with a recent PC to Apple convert who was showing me his new "toy" the iPhone 4S. He started talking to me about Steve Jobs and Larry Ellison and what a nutter Larry Ellison was (having his housing staff line up and greet him, his troubles with landing his private plane against regulations, suing his neighbor over a tree that blocked the view at his house) and he started contrasting how crazy Ellison was with Steve Jobs. Then he eagerly pointed out that he just bought the Steve Jobs biography by Walter Isaacson and how cool it was that it appeared on both his iPhone and iPad and what an amazing person Steve Jobs was compared to Ellison and his disckish personality.

Now this guy that I was talking to is an amazingly sweet man and is very down to earth about life, so I started telling him some of the facts about Steve Jobs and you could actually FEEL the shift happening in the room. He didn't know any of the stuff about Steve Jobs that is coming to the forefront finally which so many of us have known all along. I asked him if he has actually read any of the book yet and he said he hadn't. I asked him to email me his thoughts on the book and about Steve Jobs AFTER he read it, because I'd be interested in hearing about it. He offered to also send me a copy of the book right then and there, to which I quipped, "how are you going to do that? Apple doesn't allow you to share your purchases freely." He said he would find a way to do it anyway even if he had to buy an extra copy for me. I didn't have the heart to tell him that he likely wouldn't even want his copy anymore after reading about what a dick Steve Jobs was and I just politely declined his gracious offer.

It's fascinating that there is this sort of freeing awakening happening all around us with regards to the Apple fan-boy mafia and Steve Jobs. As they eagerly and excitedly read the Steve Jobs biography by Walter Isaacson, they are almost reacting the same way that concentration camp victims reacted when the locks were taken off the doors and they emerged for the first time in years into the harsh sunlight, squinting and rubbing their eyes.

As for me, I am very happy that they are finally free of that paradigm, but I can't help but also feel a deep despair, sadness and pity for them as well.

Thank you so much for reading and for your comment.

;)

dude. so wrong. He's a complex human being. read the damn biography.

your blind hatred for SJ is rooted in other things besides "proof" that he was a dick. In prejudices.

between blind love and blind hatred, I'd say you're the one starting to look like a dick.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Clearly I am wrong that they aren't ALL free of that blind sheep paradigm (haha), but I find it fascinating that what was earlier dismissed as pure hearsay, when this article was released, is now becoming common knowledge and people are starting to incorporate that into their paradigm. That in and of itself is freedom of one paradigm and the start of another. The acolytes went from "he wasn't a dick at all" to saying, "yeah he was a dick, but he was still amazing." Furthermore, the argument is dynamically shifting to people claiming I said he was ONLY a dick and nothing more, so that they can still conveniently seem correct, when in fact I was just setting the record straight that he was actually also a dick, which so many people chose to ignore or didn't even know about. I've stated many times that he was a brilliant business man, a gifted marketer and that he made some amazing products, but that doesn't make him any less of an actual dick.

Isn't it funny how now it is, "He's a complex human being..." when before it was that I was completely wrong and he didn't do any of those things that I said in the article?

I don't have anything personally against Steve Jobs and actually think he was a pretty fascinating character on many levels, but don't confuse actual reality for blind hatred or prejudice.

My "proof" of his dickish actions have been well documented and continue to be confirmed. Your stance that they didn't happen at all has already been disproved countless times and you are even changing the way you view him. That was the point of the entire article, to bring reality to the forefront of mindless following so that you can draw a realistic conclusion about the man and how he actually was.

So tell me something Zippy...

Exactly what have you accomplished in life besides writing your self-important, sophmoric "Loon with a View" column?

Ever led a multi-billion dollar, iconic company? Not likely...
Ever successfully marketed a groundbreaking device that sold over 20 million units? I don't think so...
Ever revolutionized a critical technology used worldwide? Probably not...
Ever accomplished anything besides burning thru 5 figures worth of your parents' money on 8 wasted years of college? No, wait; don't tell me!

And you're someone who is in a position to bash Steve Jobs why?

Missy K's picture

At least his name isn't fronk.

Andrei, how did you know about my background...have I told you before?

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha! I know, right?

Yup, half Swedish and half Native American, and nobody believes that you're either of those.

I pay attention.

;)

Missy K's picture

aw, I could just hug you right now, but I wont because that usually ends in strangulation :/

Which is probably why i've had so many teachers in 3rd grade.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha, It suddenly occurs to me that Mortal Kombat II needed an Autoerotic Asphyxiation FATALITY.

;)

Missy K's picture

This just thought just came to you? It would be Mileena's of course ;)
They should bring back animality.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha Well yes, I don't think about Autoerotic Asphyxiation as much as you do Missy.

The could call it GASPALITY!

:P

Andrei Trostel's picture

To quote your iCon.

"If you were a bozo, wouldn't you want to know about it?"

I suppose you think Steve Jobs can run around calling people "fucking dickless assholes" and bashing them, but yet should be somehow immune to blatant honesty himself?

I'm not saying the man wasn't a great salesman or a brilliant marketing business man, I'm just saying the guy was a fucking dick, which if you actually knew two shits about him, even HE would agree with.

Thanks for your amusing little comment though, even if you clearly don't know two shits about me either. That's to be expected though, you haven't been able to correctly psychoanalyze Steve Jobs, why would you be able to do it with me who you know even less about. Go read his biography, that guy didn't do any of the things Steve Jobs did either, yet he came to pretty much the same exact conclusion, that Steve Jobs was a dick.

If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, sounds like a duck, abandoned it's duckling, it's not a duck it's a fucking dick!

No, I don't think he "should be somehow immune to blatant honesty," I just think you should be accountable for what you say about others, particularly the dead. What you don't seem to realize is that when you talk trash, nobody will take you seriously, because you reveal yourself to be a smug, envious buffoon--FOR REAL ZIPPY! You might be more credible if you have actually achieved something in life, so I ask you again: How is a pathetic, underachieving little snot nose like you qualified to villify Steve Jobs? If he were here today, he'd chew you up and spit you out for breakfast but oh, that's right; he's not here to defend himself anymore, so guess what? That makes you a coward.

I'm guessing you write this crap while sitting in front of a 10-year old laptop wearing Green Lantern underpants in a one room efficiency apartment with way too much time on your hands...

Andrei Trostel's picture

"No, wait; don't tell me!"
"So I ask you again..."

Somebody needs to lay off the meds and come to a decision or something.

"What you don't seem to realize is that when you talk trash, nobody will take you seriously..."

No one will take me seriously on a comedy website?! I suppose it's a good thing I write a humor column then.

Wait, hold on I'm confused Fronky, if no one will take me seriously then what the fuck are you pissing and moaning all about?

Look, I get that you are used to people eagerly jumping at the chance to highlight all their lifetime achievements, but I don't subscribe to that narcissistic tooting your own horn horseshit. People who callously do that are seen as major dicks, you know, like Steve Jobs. Let me just say that, while again, your little psychoanalysis of me was fun to read, it couldn't be further from the truth. Nice try though.

Since I'm guessing you can't wait to tell us all about YOU though, let me ask you a few questions Fronky:

If I'm a coward for speaking my mind honestly, what are you for using a pseudonym, Frank Gaughan? Oh...losing credibility already.

Why is your head so far up Steve Jobs's ass if you are using Windows 7 and Internet Explorer 9? Oh...what would Steve Jobs think?!

If you are so respectful of Steve Jobs's memory, why did you follow some link from another article that said, "Here's a free copy of the Steve Jobs biography"? Oh...taking royalty money from a widow and her children, have you no decency?!

Why do you think Steve Jobs cares about what people think of him given his well documented megalomaniac personality? Oh...you don't even know the first thing about the guy...seriously man, this is getting embarrassing for you.

If you don't think he "should be somehow immune to blatant honesty" why the fuck are you suggesting that just because he's dead that people can't talk about him in a negative light? Remember that "authorized" biography that you were trying to get out of paying for? Yeah, in case you missed it, that was published AFTER his death and it talks negatively about him in many places throughout. Oh...even Steve Jobs thinks you're wrong...that one hurt....no really, I feel your pain man.

Answer me Fronky!
No, wait; don't tell me!

Yawn...

Andrei Trostel's picture

There's that "Think Different" attention deficit disorder kicking in. Like I said, you may want to get your meds adjusted a little. If only there was a brand new Apple product that you could run right out and stand in line for. Maybe that would breathe a little life back into you for at least another day or two.

Sleep tight Fronky, I sincerely hope that one day you wake up.

;)

Yawn...

Andrei Trostel's picture

FRONKY?!
FRONKY?!
WAKE UP FRONKY!
WAKE UP!
WE'VE LOST FRONKY!
HE'S FALLEN INTO A NARCOLEPTIC COMA WITHOUT HIS iCONIC LEADER TELLING HIM HOW AND WHAT TO THINK!
I KNEW THIS MIGHT HAPPEN WHEN STEVE JOBS DIED!
I KNEW IT!
I JUST KNEW IT!
OH WHY, OH WHY DID NO ONE LISTEN!
WE'LL MISS YOU FRONKY AND I'LL SEE YOU ON THAT BIG iCLOUD IN THE SKY!

Pathetic...

Andrei Trostel's picture

I can't tell if you are mumbling incoherently in your narcoleptic coma, or if you are actually trying to fire a neuron on your own.

COME ON FRONKY!
KEEP TRYING!
YOU CAN DO IT!
COME BACK TO US!
DON'T GO INTO THE LIGHT!

Fuck! Where is that little short woman from Poltergeist when you need her?!

point is he has a point.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Steve Jobs didn't even agree with Fronky's point, otherwise Steve Jobs wouldn't have allowed an "authorized" biography to be released post-posthumously. It's ridiculous logic that one can't speak of the dead. You think Steve Jobs wanted us all to read his biography and then just not say anything?

Anybody: "Hey, did you read the Steve Jobs biography?"

Fronky: "Shhhhhh....he's dead."

HAHA!

Missy K,

Great comeback Hon! Did you write that all by yourself or did you have help?

Shouldn't you be getting another tat or piercing? You're gonna make a terrific escort someday!!

Love,

-Fronk!

Andrei Trostel's picture

Hon?
Condescension just because she's a woman?
Suggesting she'll make a terrific escort?
Looking down on tattoos and piercings...in the 21st century?

You must be part of that enlightened "Think Different" crowd I keep hearing all about.

Your mother would probably be so proud of you right about now. I know my mother loves it when I go out of my way to degrade women and call them whores. It makes those 9 months of pregnancy followed by all those hours of labor totally worth it for her. My sister thinks it is really fun too, why sometimes we even sneak into construction sites, steal hard hats to wear and make cat calls at all the women passing by, then we laugh and laugh and laugh at those stupid fucking bitches. Do you have kids? Oh man, people who have kids are so lucky. For instance, if you have a son, you could teach him to degrade women just for the fun of it. You could have him call your wife a fucking cunt right to her face and just watch the tears roll down her face as she tries and figures out where he's learning all this stuff. Oh and if you have a daughter...well HAHAHAHAHAHA imagine how funny it will be HAHAHAHAHA if someone tells her HAHAHHAHAHA that she'll make a terrific escort someday HAHAHAHA with two, count em' TWO exclamation points so she'll know they mean it!!

Yup, you are so lucky to be in that totally cool and enlightened "Think Different" crowd.

So, let me get this straight...

It's OK for you and little Missy to belittle and deride others who are more accomplished than yourself, but God forbid anyone should have the temerity to criticize you. Lighten up dude, it's a comedy Web site... Remember???

Apparently I rang your bell or you wouldn't have written 500+ words getting back at me. Trust me, you've told me everything I need to know about you.

You'll go far in life... Repeat after me: "You want fries with that?"

PS: I don't think Missy is going to sleep with you just because you stuck up for her. Nice try though...

Andrei Trostel's picture

I know this sense of humor thing is a bit challenging for you, but in case you missed it, my response WAS satirical and comedic. It's okay though Fronky, don't worry about it, I understand how hard it is for acolytes of Steve Jobs to "actually" think outside the box.

Your insight is not quite right. To incite a writer to write on a writing site, after an uptight spite slight, doesn't shed much light outright.

Here Fronky let me help you out a little, that was 26 words. I kind of get the feeling counting isn't your forte since that last comment was actually 255 words and not 500+ words. Don't worry about it, you'll get that whole counting thing down eventually, just keep practicing and practicing and practicing.

Just out of curiosity, how far does one go without the ability to count? I'm guessing you aren't an accountant or anything remotely related to sales, you know, because of the whole counting problem, am I right? I knew this one company once, JMS Elite in Willoughby Ohio, that looked pretty good on paper, but just couldn't pull it together on the whole concept of actual numbers. They kept exaggerating all their figures, I guess because they thought it had more of an impact for their pitch. However, when dealing with sales it is really about the "actual numbers" that make a factual bottom line for the clients. Anyways, what is it that you do Frank Gaughan?

PS: Yeah, I hope Missy isn't going to sleep with me just because I stuck up for her on the internet, but then unlike you, I actually respect women and don't automatically assume they are all whores or potential escorts.

Missy K's picture

"It's OK for you and little Missy to belittle and deride others who are more accomplished than yourself, but God forbid anyone should have the temerity to criticize you."

hmm, little Missy. I like the sound of that. But seriously Fronklin. Stop getting your panties in a bunch. It's a humor website, you aren't supposed to get so offended and mad about it. You don't watch a comedian and get insulted when he or she tells a joke because their job is about comedy. Here's an example. I didn't get offended by your comment about me, because it made me laugh. I appreciate the effort you put into it to make yourself look like a complete close minded moron. That was what you were going for, right?

To boil Steve jobs down to "he's a dick" is a gross disservice to the human condition. Andrei you're a dick to any commenter that doesn't share your deluded bias against apple. If by your reasoning "apple fan boys" are a deluded minority and thus they are a cult of loons, it would seem reality and te current state of affairs would dictate otherwise as Apple becomes the most valuable and trusted brad in the world.

Andrei Trostel's picture

So you're saying that the human condition is based on brand value?

Wow, thanks for clearing that up for me. Yeah, I can't imagine why I thought that "Apple fan boys" are a cult of materialistic loons. Clearly they have a solid finger on the pulse of the human condition. Hey, is there an App for the human condition yet? I'm curious because I'd like to know where parking in handicap spaces and being a dick to people in wheelchairs falls on the scale of gross disservice to the human condition.

Steve Jobs is a dick to a guy in a wheelchair.

no. read it again.

Andrei Trostel's picture

I read it again and I still see you basing the human condition on company value. The reality is that Apple's products are more expensive than a lot of competitors and THAT is one of the biggest reasons they are an extremely valuable company on paper. It's easy to mark stuff up and sell it way above what it is worth when your demographic is a bunch of blind sheep. Market share numbers says it all...so does parking in handicap spaces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

This Weimer guy is an overly obsessive fan of Jobs himself. He needs to go desecrate Jobs' grave and release his apple sauce into him and be done with it already.

Andrei Trostel's picture

HAHA!

iAgree.

And, by the way, Jobs didn't innovate ANYthing. His company took great ideas that were already being used, slapped their logo on it, and marketed it to the world as if it was the second coming. They may not have actually said the words "We invented this", but they did everything possible to imply it, and now every apple fan believes that. Examples: iPod - mp3 players were on the market for years beforehand. Only, the previous players had more features and cost less. iPhone - Windows Phone and blackberry existed for years beforehand. iPad - The pad/tablet was introduced by Bill Gates in... oh, 1996? Microsoft had these on the shelves long before iTampon. The only thing connected to these items that you can truly connect to apple is their ridiculous marketing tactics, making them more known than any other brand of said product.

- iSlapped (an apple logo on your product and now it's mine)

Andrei Trostel's picture

iAgree again.

You have no idea how surprised I was looking at this and how much iRespect you for posting this. Coming across this after a heated argument with my roommate, who has his head buried deep inside jobs' ass, literally had me jump outta my chair over the fact that Im not the only one who is arguing that Jobs is in no way a freaking god that you would pray and cry for after hez dead and that he was literally an asshole on human grounds. My roommate acts like a fucking dick himself in the awe of steve jobs and gets all touchy without his facts straight over anything against jobs. How fag is that !! Anyway, iCongratulate you on this successful post and proving all the iCrap fans wrong and foolish by exposing the hard hitting truth about the Steve 'Dick' Jobs.

Best
Pink

Andrei Trostel's picture

Thanks Pink and please tell Carey Hart to remove his head from Steve Jobs' ass, it soils his image. :P

It's funny how all the comments died down immediately AFTER the Steve Jobs "authorized" biography came out. There really isn't anything to argue about anymore since even his biographer basically came to the same conclusion that Steve Jobs was a dick. You can't even really debate the whole not speaking ill of the dead angle anymore since clearly Steve Jobs doesn't even agree with it. Walter Isaacson told Steve Jobs that there were many parts of the book that were unflattering and that he wasn't going to like and Jobs was STILL cool with it being published.

So yeah, case closed, Steve Jobs was a dick. A really good at his job, brilliant marketing strategist, seemingly cool, megalomaniac, iconic dick.

;)

GE's picture

If a person asserts that Steve Jobs was a Saint, they'd need to ignore his personal actions. If a person asserts that Jobs was a dick, they'd need to ignore or marginalize all the positive he helped create.

Also, a humble person is willing to have their worst characteristics inspected publicly even if that means their legacy will be slightly tarnished. An arrogant and dishonest person works to block any negative press about their self because he/she is unwilling to accept or to allow other people to see the reality of who he/she is.

Jobs wasn't perfect but I believe that the decisions he made were in the interest of the greater good. Sometimes you have to be willing to appear to be a bad guy to be good guy. (Have you learned nothing from Batman?) We can look at the whole package and see that Jobs created work environments that created paradigm defining tools. Without Jobs' strong personality none of those inventions/tools that are defining our age would have been created. The truth is that we all benefited from his dickish personality, and that to me is why I don't consider Jobs simply a dick. He was much more than that.

Just like you, Andrei. You are not simply a dick. You are much more than that. And, it would be ridiculous/cynical for me to define your entire existence by only your worst characteristics. Because, you are entitled to be defined by all of your actions. It appears that Jobs understood that because he allowed his whole self to be seen. But, it appears that you don't get that.

Andrei Trostel's picture

The two aren't congruent Weijore. To be a Saint, you need to have NOT been a dick of epic proportions. To be a dick you can still have created many positive things, but could have still been a dick of epic proportions. This article is about all the mindless zombie sheep going on and on about what a saint the guy was when very clearly he was not. This article isn't about ignoring all the good Steve Jobs has done and in fact many of his positive attributes have been acknowledged by me which yet somehow you missed. This article IS about NOT ignoring all the shitty things he has done just because you like your phone, which is pretty much what everyone was doing. I got tired of everyone asserting how saintly he was while ignoring all the personal and business actions that he did which were totally dickish. Furthermore, when they were brought up, people argued against them blindly as falsehoods and propaganda, until of course everything was 100% confirmed, by countless sources including his own "authorized" biography. Now it is just you blindly arguing.

Again, you demonstrate your LACK of knowledge and history about Steve Jobs. He wasn't willing to have his worst characteristics inspected publicly in the least and maintained an air of secrecy about EVERYTHING! He DID work fervently to block negative press about himself even going as far as to censor every single book ever published by an entire publishing company for publishing an "unauthorized" biography of him. Steve Jobs was NOT humble and was DEFINITELY arrogant, but don't take my word for it, read his biography based on interviews with him and hundreds of people he knew personally.

I'm sorry, are we now basing how good a person is on whether or not they created work environments that created paradigm defining tools/inventions? Hitler created work environments and some of the German advancements of World War II certainly defined the age that followed it. That must mean Hitler wasn't a dick and war is awesome, huh? Um...no. Well I guess there goes that theory.

No one EVER said Steve Jobs was "simply a dick" and nothing more Weijore and no one is defining his ENTIRE existence by only his worst characteristics. That is just something you've deluded yourself into believing so you can keep arguing where there is no longer an argument. I am simply doing EXACTLY what you are suggesting and have been defining him by ALL of his actions without ignoring the bad ones, but it appears that you don't get that and never did.

Cool phone though bro.

;)

Yes you're right he maintained an atmosphere of secrecy which helped Apple to gather anticipation for its products. But that all goes out the window when he allows Isaacson into his life. So your glossing over concept because it doesn't suit your one dimensional assessment of a great man.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Actually it just speaks to his control freak nature and his brilliance for selling a product. Obviously Steve Jobs was a smart man and he knew damn well that he would have no control over the media storm surrounding his death and thus finally allowing Isaacson into his life was his way of asserting some amount of control about what was said and still making a posthumous buck in the process. It was WELL KNOWN that he was VERY secretive yet his main reason for wanting the biography was that he wanted his kids to know him.

“I wasn’t always there for them, and I wanted them to know why and to understand what I did." -Steve Jobs

I actually find that very telling in and of itself and speaks to his dickish nature, that he wasn't there for his children and had to have a biography written for them to actually know him. Apparently his business was more important than his kids. Yeah, real freakin' enlightened. Here's the thing though, his kids are 33, 20, 16 and 13 years old, so you have to ask yourself why a man who was EXTREMELY private in life wouldn't just record the Isaacson interviews for his kids alone? Why market it as an "authorized" biography to the masses unless you had a larger agenda than just wanting your kids to know why you weren't always there for them?

Why "ask" a Pulitzer nominated author of biographies for Einstein and Benjamin Franklin to write something, for your children to understand you, when you could just record personalized messages to them on your iPhone?

Don't be so naive to think he did it all for his kids and because he was a humble man, because that's just laughable and speaks volumes about your own personal "reality distortion field." ;)

the comments died down because people are tired of responding to the broken record that is Andrei.

And perhaps because they are busy reading. ;)

Andrei Trostel's picture

All evidence to the contrary since you are here responding. No one is putting a gun to your head to hit that reply button and you can certainly opt out of receiving the emails.

I'll buy that perhaps they are busy reading.

656 pages is a lot, but that is exactly why I wrote the CliffsNotes version of the Steve Jobs Biography here. ;)

GE's picture

No one has said he's a saint, Andrei. That is something you made up because you cynically looked at other people as sheep blindly following media portrayal of Jobs. Meanwhile, your opinions of Jobs are based upon basically the same types of sources. You have not shown that you have looked any deeper into who Jobs was than anybody else.

Your research is not any deeper than reading biased online articles that cite secondary sources or research that when viewed paints a nearly opposite picture than what you've interpreted from it. So by you agreeing with the idea that Jobs was "simply a dick" based upon those shoddy sources and cynical interpretation of other sources, you are showing your willingness to blindly follow media interpretations of who Steve Jobs was and to cynically marginalize sources that portray Jobs in a way that is counter to your accepted reality. This make your argument that people are blindly following media portrayals of Jobs highly hypocritical because you are doing the same thing. One of the only differences is that you are following different but less objective media outlets.

You have not cited his biography, any of the NGOs' research, or any firsthand accounts of Steve Jobs. Until you do that, you are just as much a sheep as anyone at which you are trying to preach.

Interestingly, if you look at your own argument, you can see that it is largely right on the mark, despite being equally blind. But, if you also uncynically look at other people's arguments about Jobs, you can see that they too are largely correct. The reason that is true is because the seemingly opposed arguments that you and other people are making are not mutually exclusive.

A person can be humble and be arrogant. A person can be a saint and be a dick. This is because of time. I can undersell my talents in one moment and then gloat about how great I am the next. I can watch a woman bathe, seduce and fuck her, and send her husband to his death and still be chosen by god to lead his people. (Though David isn't a Saint, clearly, Sainthood isn't what you think it is.)

The point is that people are not simple. You can know this by looking at yourself and realizing that you are not simple and by being humble enough to say, "I am probably average. Therefore, on average others are equally complex." In the end, if you recognize that Jobs was likely as smart or smarter than you, you should be able to say, "Steve Jobs was definitely not simple. Therefore, he could not be 'simply a dick'."

Weimer, you're right on the money. You really can't boil Steve Jobs down to just being a dick.

As someone who writes an article on a well-trafficked sight, and maintain that you are right and what you preach is fact, you by extension imply that you're an authority.

As such, perhaps you should read his biography, so you can maintain your authority from a higher ground. As a matter of fact, here. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3705990/SteveJobs.zip Your choice of PDF, epub, and kindle.

Yes, there are moments when he looks like an asshole and gives a finger to the establishment - but there are also moments of profound passion, and of love of art and music and everything that is humanistic.

GE's picture

Anonymous, I'm confused a little by your response. In your second paragraph and below, were you addressing me or Andrei?

andrei on the implied authority... you on the great response.

GE's picture

Cool. That makes sense. I just wanted to be sure.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha! This keeping track of stuff is hard in one's own reality distortion field, huh?

:P

Andrei Trostel's picture

It's easy to see implied authority when you are an easily manipulated mindless sheep.

;)

Andrei Trostel's picture

It's okay Weijore, it's easy to get turned around and confused in one's own reality distortion field.

;)

Andrei Trostel's picture

How easily it is to manipulate the mindless sheep. Eh?

So exactly who ever said that Steve Jobs was just a dick and nothing more? Oh right, no one. That was just Weijore's reality distortion field so he could feel better about himself while desperately trying to convince himself that he was right and that I was wrong.

See how easy it is to see that paradigm shift that I was talking about earlier?

The mindless, zombie, acolyte, blind, sheep masses go from chanting,

"NOT A DICK...NOT A DICK...NOT A DICK."

to

"NOT JUST A DICK...NOT SIMPLY A DICK...NOT ONLY A DICK..."

Not BaaaaaaaD sheep...not BaaaaaaaD.

;)

Oh and way to steal royalties from Steve Jobs' family by posting a free copy of Walter Isaacson's biography here. The irony of the free distribution of the book is kind of hilarious given Apple's history against free distribution. Haha!

One more thing, I'm just curious, where does parking in handicap spaces fall on the "everything that is humanistic" scale?

Andrei Trostel's picture

Once again, missing the point all together and twisting reality so you can feel better about being wrong and continue arguing.

Who ever said that I agreed that Steve Jobs was "simply a dick?" Those are your words, Weijore, not mine. I never once claimed that he was "simply a dick" as you are now conveniently quoting. Go ahead and search the entire article/thread for the phrase and see where it appears first. You just desperately want to pretend that I agree with that, so you can somehow fit the fact that Steve Jobs "was a dick" into your new and evolving (more reality based) paradigm regarding him. Then you can more easily delude yourself into thinking that you've been arguing all along that he wasn't "simply a dick" and nothing else, which again no one EVER actually said. You, however, did say that he was "not a dick." Go ahead and search the article/thread for that phrase if you like. The fact that he was "not a dick" simply isn't true and it is transparently becoming harder and harder for you to deny that in the face of "actual" reality.

Keep scrambling though Weijore, I'm sure you'll convince yourself somehow that you've been right all along if you keep at it.

;)

GE's picture

Your argument may not, word for word, say that Steve Jobs was simply a dick, but that is the implied argument of your piece. You downplayed anything positive Jobs did so that you could support the idea that Jobs was a dick. Because, If you had just let his work speak for itself, you would have had an obviously false argument. You painted a picture of a simple dick who made things that made us all worse, which is bullshit.

Your title only says one thing, "Steve Jobs was a dick." That is an over simplification and doesn't factor in any of the great things he did. If I were to use one thing to describe Jobs, it wouldn't be a dick. He might have been perceived to be a dick by some people, but in the end his products show his ability to understand the human condition and that he made the human condition better for hundreds of millions of people.

Furthermore, If anything -- by writing this -- you've shown that narcissism is definitely not caused by Apple products. You blast Apple products and you wrote an article about one of the greatest people of our time (Steve Jobs) while including yourself in a third of the paragraphs. You even compared yourself directly to Jobs to illustrate how Jobs was a worse person than you. Later, you walked into an Apple store and pulled up your, admittedly offensive, article on the biggest screen in the store. Mind you, this was months after YOU QUOTED YOURSELF as saying an old saying that you believed you came up with, even after being presented with the fact that you could not have come up with it. You are incredibly "narcissistic, self-centered, self-absorbed," and self deluded. Though clearly, you are not a fan of Steve Jobs' products. So, at the very least, this means that you are also hypocritical.

But, in the end, your argument is undone by the fact that you have done no sound research. Because of that, you have not been able to show you are not one of the "blind sheep" who has simply wandering off in the opposite direction than the rest of the herd. You're just as blind as everyone else.

You're just more narcissistic, arrogant, cynical, hypocritical, and self-deluded.

Weimer guy seems like such a patriot who would sacrifice his useless life to bring steve jobs back.. lmfao.. this world is so fucked up and funny its not even funny.. well Andrei, why dont you just wait till another steve jobs appears in a few months/years and all of the sheeple will get over it. hahaha.. I think if steve jobs was alive and insisting he was a dick, Weimer would probably have strangled him back to death proving him wrong..lol .. like they say, theres clearly no cure for 'an obsession'.. simply AWEFUL !

Trostel, why dont you stop wasting your fucking time, its the 'SHEEPLE'

you know who am I ;)

peace

GE's picture

Meh. I owe Jobs nothing. I'm obsessed with accuracy. Saying, "Steve Jobs was a Dick," just isn't accurate to his whole being. That's all I'm saying. Right now the argument comes down to whether or not that was consistently the argument I was making the entire time or not. In essence it was, but it wasn't articulated specifically for a while. If I were to say "Steve Jobs was a dick." I would say it, "Steve Jobs was a dick a lot." Because, he was. Then again, you can pretty much say that about anyone who ever existed. Also, Ben Franklin was a womanizer. Thomas Jefferson raped his slaves. George Washington had wooden teeth. David Hume was an atheist. (almost no one likes an atheist) Jesus Christ never actually said he was god. Steven King continues to write books. In fact, you could say "that person was often a dick" about most of the greatest people who have ever existed.

Andrei Trostel's picture

HAHA! You're obsessed with accuracy?! Now THAT'S comedy Weijore. You're obsessed with arguing, at any cost, even if you have to change and twist the discussion in order to keep arguing and delude yourself into thinking that you were right all along.

You can delude yourself into thinking whatever you like, but one only has to go back and reread the comment section to see that you were making a strong case that Steve Jobs wasn't a dick at all. It is only now that your paradigm has been forcefully altered by actual reality that you are scrambling and back tracking to Steve Jobs wasn't SIMPLY, ONLY, or JUST a dick.

If that delusion makes you feel better about yourself then go right ahead and live in that fantasy land, but those of us who live in actual reality know better.

;)

GE's picture

Steve Jobs wasn't a dick. Steve Jobs occasionally acted like a dick. There is a difference. One is a simplification of Steve Jobs' entire being and the other is a description of an occasional characteristic of Jobs.

That isn't changing or twisting my argument. It's making my argument more specific.

Andrei Trostel's picture

You keep telling yourself that and eventually you'll believe it, just don't expect the rest of us to. Also, while you are at it, kill some time by looking up the word "occasional" and then try using it correctly in the future.

you keep talking in a condescending tone and eventually someone may think you're right.

Andrei Trostel's picture

You'll forgive me for trying to bring just a little sarcasm into the conversation, I mean after all, this IS a comedy website.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha! Sheeple, such a great word.

Sometimes a heavy dose of reality is cure enough as is demonstrated by all the "sheeple" now acknowledging that "Steve Jobs Was a Dick" as the title clearly states. When I wrote this article, that fact was completely ignored and highly challenged. Now it is widely accepted, irrefutable and built into the discussion about Steve Jobs, because of actual reality.

I guess the answer to why I don't stop wasting my time is because I truly believe it ISN'T a waste of time...mixed with a little bit of because it is fun.

Putting a man on a pedestal to be admired and seen as a role model when he has abandoned/neglected his own kids for business success, parked in handicap parking spaces, ran sweatshops, supported censorship for the sake of his own massive ego and was a dick to everyone around him, not to mention a slew of other dickish actions, is just not a fantasy land that I want to live in.

I don't see kicking that pedestal over as a waste of time at all and I'd rather live in actual reality.

Also, it's in the column description: "Sarcastic, eye-opening observations from someone crazy enough to tell you the truth and leave you questioning your own reality."

;)

Andrei your article has not changed anything. It's been well known for a long time ex-apple employees have reported being afraid to be stuck in an elevator with him because if they weren't smart enough it was highly likely they would get fired by the end.

His dying didn't change any of that. Most all the in-depth pieces about him written by reputable publications sang his praises as well as pointing out his flaws. I'd go so far as to say Steve's prickly yet charismatic personality is almost common knowledge.

You haven't provided anything substantially more real - you HAVE however provided a one-sided argument engrained with bias.

Andrei Trostel's picture

In the face of the wildly over the top positive emotional outpouring over his death and the erroneously putting him up on a pedestal while extolling what a great role model he was, I wrote a reality check comedy article contrasting that idea. I made a statement about the lack of perspective of people who admire a man who chose corporate business success over his own family and over being a decent human being in general.

Now we are talking about it, which I didn't see ANYONE doing before. I'd hardly say that has not changed anything. To say the facts presented here were well known or common knowledge for a long time just simply isn't true. If you read above you can actually see where there are people that deny the facts outright until they were proven ad nauseum and then they started incorporating them into their language and paradigm about Steve Jobs. Others came right out and stated that they didn't know a lot of those facts, which you are conveniently ignoring.

You might have known more about his antics than some others, having read more about him, but the vast majority of people definitely did not know, or forgot with their gecko like attention span.

If my positions seem biased and one-sided it is because I am presenting the other side of the coin which hasn't been previously displayed. It wouldn't make much sense to keep displaying heads over and over and over again in order to demonstrate that there is actually a tails side to the coin also.

Andrei Trostel's picture

As usual Weijore you just aren't getting it through your thick mental fog. This article brought balance and reality to a discussion where there wasn't previously any. Everyone extolling all the goodness of Steve Jobs and talking about what a great human being he was needed to be countered with the reality of his negative dickish qualities, not more positive qualities that people were already talking about. I wouldn't have had any issue with people saying what a brilliant business man he was or that he was a great entrepreneur, but they took it too far putting him up on a pedestal as a good role model to follow. When it became about what a great enlightened human being and humanitarian he was THAT is when the reality check was written and issued. The fact of the matter was that he was actually a pretty shitty human being on an enlightened humanitarian level, but still a brilliant business/sales man regardless. Now the record has been set straight and people are finally accepting the truth about his dickish and inhumane actions that actually helped make him successful. It's impossible now to discuss his great success as a business man without also acknowledging that he abandoned/neglected his children, stepped on other people regularly, and generally behaved like a total bastard to those around him.

No one ever implied he was ONLY, SIMPLY or JUST a dick, that is just your smoke, mirrors and fog to make yourself feel better about the fact that you argued that he wasn't a dick at all and defended all his actions blindly without actually knowing about all the dickish things he actually did.

People are now unable to deny all the dickish things that he did, while talking about all the positive things that he did, which provides a more realistic picture of who he was and also was the entire point of the article. You yourself have even begun to accept his dickish qualities now and have already begun working them into your paradigm about who he was and no amount of deflecting, arm waving, or pointing fingers in other directions is ever going to change that fact.

If people STILL think Steve Jobs is a proper role model and his actions were an enlightened way to behave in society in order to become a successful human being, well then his "legacy" is a pretty fucking sad one indeed.

GE's picture

You don't understand my argument because you don't actually understand why he was a great businessman and entrepreneur. He was great at those things because of his understanding of human beings. The understanding of human beings that brings about the products that he helped make can only be made by a person that has heightened empathy, morality, and an advanced understanding of business ethics/management. If he had been a complete dick, he would have run his business completely differently and probably wouldn't have been successful.

Furthermore, you base your opinions of his ethics upon the opinions of other people that read the NGO's reports on his subcontractors factories in China. Your sources are clearly weak. You do not know what the reports said. So, you cannot say that you know that Steve Jobs was responsible for running sweat shops, without lying or being ignorant or being self deluded. You don't know the facts of what was said by the NGO's or any of the other surrounding factors for that matter.

You argument continually restates that Steve Jobs was simply a dick. That he did nothing that was actually good. This is because you continually trivialize how technology affects our lives and because you are unwilling to accept the fact that he revolutionized how people work together in corporations. (a fact which is supported by the superiority of Apple, NEXT, and PIXAR products and by the PIXAR documentary which shows the awesome benefits of working for Jobs)

Andrei Trostel's picture

I'm sorry, did you just say heightened empathy, morality and an advanced understanding of business ethics/management? Wow Weijore, you haven't just drank the Kool-Aid, you are licking the bottom of the glass! Steve Jobs DID NOT have a heightened sense of empathy or morality as has been demonstrated countless times not just by me, but by his own "authorized" biography. As far as business ethics/management goes, some of the biggest complaints about the man were about his management style and "sweat-shop" business ethics.

If you actually knew me Weijore, you would know that I spend a significant amount of time doing research and have in fact read both the NGO report AND the Apple reports including the one where the child labor issues actually got worse after Steve Jobs said "we are all over this."

Maybe YOU should actually read the reports before you continue to make a bigger fool of yourself than you already have.

http://www.business-humanrights.org/media/documents/it_report_phase_iv-t...

http://images.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/pdf/Apple_SR_2011_Progres...

Also again, for the record, (and please pay attention this time) I never ONCE said, "Steve Jobs was simply a dick" or "that he did nothing that was actually good" those are your words to once again convince yourself that you have been arguing something all along that you know on some level that you actually haven't been.

Keep telling yourself that though and I'm sure your mind will eventually believe it...although that doesn't actually make it reality.

GE's picture

Of course you're well researched. That's why you so nicely waited until I asked you for real sources to give me these sources. You've had them all along.

Oh wait, business-humanrights.org, again, is not an NGO. It contained an article that was roughly what you were supposed to do... read the actual reports, analyze them, and write about it with citations along the way.

Think primary sources, Andrei.

That said, there is nothing from an NGO or expert that said Apple is a "sweat shop brand". The writer of the article used the term "sweat shop brand" while interpreting expert analysis loosely (business 29). (I'll call it "spin") As Lang Xiaping said, "Foxconn's decisions such as labor costs, raw materials, and manufacturing processes all involve decisions made by Apple." There were human rights violations, but again, the subcontractors had clear incentive to lie to Apple because Apple was/is in high demand. However, a conclusion that Apple knew about the violations or was complicit with the violations before the NGO's studies were released is baseless and cynical because there was no data that suggested they knew.

Get better sources.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Um Weijore, I know you miss a lot, but each time you asked I actually did bring up these sources. I get that you need someone to hold your hand to actually form some reasonable thoughts, but I figured you could click some links or actually look up what I specifically referenced to get what you needed. Silly me for thinking you could figure that part out on your own, my mistake.

I'm sorry, were you under the impression that this is CNN and not the comedy website Points in Case?

"read the actual reports, analyze them, and write about it with citations along the way."

Yeah, I'm sure an in depth analysis on these reports with citations along the way would have made for some wildly funny material, to which of course you would have complained that there wasn't any jokes following your specific and extremely narrow minded joke formula that you so often reference. Again, you'll have to forgive me for actually linking you to a website that translated the Chinese report and republished it. You're right of course, the primary source would have been way more helpful for you. Here you go:

http://www.ipe.org.cn/Upload/file/%E8%8B%B9%E6%9E%9C%E7%9A%84%E5%8F%A6%E...

See Appendix 2 for the NGOs participating (Which mind you was also in the English version.)

You might also want to check out section 3.3 again where they fully attribute the responsibility to Apple as "the sweatshop brand."

Also way to ignore the actual Apple report where the child labor issue actually got worse AFTER Steve Jobs said, "we are all over this."

You're probably right though, Steve Jobs had no idea what was going on in his factories even though you can watch the video above where you can actually hear it from his own mouth and watch him actually defend the conditions.

But by all means keep those eyes closed, keep your fingers in your ears and keep shouting, "LA LA LA LA!" That will probably change reality.

"Think Different."

;)

GE's picture

That is not a primary source, regardless of whether you can find it a different language. Just because they have a list of NGO's in the Appendix, does not mean they were involved in writing that report. That list is where you could actually start your real research, and finally end your cynical sheepical tendencies.

Andrei, you need to look at the reports the NGOs put out. Those are primary sources.

Also, you may want to defend the credibility of your secondary source. You need to research your secondary sources and show that they are credible. Because, from what I've seen, the sources you have provided do not appear to be credible.

Even Apple.com, which was ethical enough to include bad news about their company, has a conflict of interest and thus is not credible source. No matter what they post, their news will always paint them in a good light.

As far as your argument for not sourcing in your comedy article. I totally agree. It doesn't make sense to have a bunch of citations in your piece. It's comedy not academy. However, sound logic and argumentation is a great base for displaying the absurdities of the human condition. So, having an accurately thought out base will always allow the writer to make truer and in my opinion better jokes. You should do accurate research if you're going to talk about or analyze something that can't be logically deduced. Then when you write it, you have the base, but you can leave out the academic mumbo jumbo because it's highly unfunny.

That said, I was talking about your argument in the comment box. You can leave your sources out of your article because it's not an academic essay and no one is going to accuse you of plagiarizing some one else's argument. But, when you're in the comment box defending your stance, that is when you should provide your sources or just admit you didn't have any when you wrote it and be fine with that. After all, you're just trying to get people to laugh or strongly agree or say, "fuck that shit." Just be honest and say, "I didn't have it all figured out. I was just speaking from a place that felt honest at the time, and which still seems honest despite the fact that I haven't done all the research... if you don't like it, prove me wrong, or fuck off."

Andrei Trostel's picture

Once again I think you are a little confused, both about what a primary source is and what that report actually is.

"On 20 January 2011 a coalition of NGOs led by Friends of Nature, Institute of Public and Environmental Affairs, and Green Beagle, issued a report entitled, "The Other Side of Apple.""

That report I linked you to IS the report where Apple was named a "sweat-shop brand" by the 36 NGO coalition. You ask for the reports the NGOs put out, but that simply isn't how things are done when a group of people research something for a publication. They don't all individually publish their findings and then write a collaborative publication together.

Here's an example for instance: When a group of medical researchers are listed on a publication and let's say that publication is in Science or Nature magazine, the publication IS the primary source for future citation. It's not like you would cite their individual lab books when referencing the research, you would cite the actual publication.

I get it though, you need to do more hand waving in order to try and continue to argue about something that is not debatable and never has been. Apple was listed as a "sweat-shop brand" and just because Steve Jobs said it isn't one and you wave your hands a lot, doesn't actually make it reality that is isn't a sweat shop brand.

You want another reality check? Thirty six non government organization IN CHINA listed Apple as a sweat shop brand. Exactly how good do you think those conditions were for people in China to declare them inhumane working conditions where they normally already work longer hours and in generally worse conditions than here? Want to hear it from their own mouths, or I suppose you don't think that is a credible source either.

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/_oiXj05CYEY/

As far as me doing research before writing an article I can once again assure you that you are certainly barking up the wrong tree on that one. I've been more than forth coming with multiple different references to demonstrate the validity of the facts presented and you know it, despite your refusal to admit it so that you can continue to argue and frantically wave your arms.

For god's sake man, do you know how many fucking shitty witch movies I watched before writing my Halloween article?! :P

http://www.pointsincase.com/articles/top-5-sexiest-witches-covens

I definitely do my research before writing and also to just stay informed, can you claim the same? I think we all know the answer to that since you have already clearly demonstrated your blind ignorance of the situation countless times.

Face facts Weijore, the guy was a dick and certainly NOT a good role model of a decent human being, despite being a brilliant business/sales man and selling some really cool products. You might want to try and not blindly follow without actually watching where you are going lest you might sacrifice your own humanity in the process.

GE's picture

Again, you missed the point. Sources are important. For the quotation, you could have just made up that quote. Where the fuck did you find it? That's important. For all I know, you wrote it.

Secondly, I don't speak any languages that are spoken in China other than English. So yes, I find your video source as not credible. I could write the subtitles myself. Not to mention that on either side of the video were commercials for clothes or something. Call me picky if you want, but you can't call me a blind sheep for not trusting a video in a different language on a dot com flanked by commercials.

I gladly face facts. You have simply not provided any credible evidence that specifically supports you argument. You can call that blindness all you want, but I'll stick to needing credible sources or logic for my arguments and you can read what ever you want while calling everyone else a blind sheep.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha, I know you are used to being fed bullshit by people like Steve Jobs, but no, I didn't write that quote. It was the sentence describing the report provided with the link.

You'd be pretty hard pressed to find ANY sources that you might deem credible these days then and should probably just stick with going through life making shit up to believe whatever you want, clearly it works just fine for you as you have so adequately demonstrated here...um...no.

At the time of writing this comment:

http://www.cnn.com/ (Capitol One credit card ad, Equifax ad, ARA lifestyle ad,)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ (Australian travel ad)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/ (Penny stocks can happen ad, Progressive insurance ad, Anti Aging Miracle ad, ING Direct ad, Sprint ad)

http://abcnews.go.com/ (Once Upon a Time television show ad, United Health Care ad)

You get the idea. Selling ad space on the internet doesn't make the information on a site not credible, that's just silly and speaks to a greater lack of understanding and awareness about the reality of the world, as you have shown many times. Just out of curiosity, where do you get your highly credible information/news?

Weijore, you are very clearly NOT interested in facing facts and I have provided WAY MORE than enough credible sources to support what I have said, and you know it. You just are deciding to ignore the facts so that you can continue to argue, for whatever reason. Again, just like Steve Jobs saying his factories weren't sweat shops, you saying a source isn't credible, doesn't actually make it a reality.

same goes of your assertions. Just because you say they are credible doesn't make it so. I've never heard of any of these ... just judging from the text within this seems like a more emotionally driven article than facts - it takes a couple sob stories about workers in a 2nd world country and somehow makes the leap in logic that Apple is responsible for it.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Yeah sure, that's probably why Apple then leaped into action to try and clean up their mess instead of just saying it was all bullshit and eagerly inviting everyone into their "wonderful" factories to see for themselves. That's also probably why even after they tried to clean up the mess they themselves admitted that the child labor issues actually got worse. You could always read about the documented incidences in the Apple reports if you like, or you can just close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and yell, "LALALALALANOTCREDIBLESOURCELALALALA!"

:P

Jobs is said to have been charismatic, able to charm anybody. He had a heightened awareness of people's moods and was a great (for the most part) judge of character. At the same time if something someone did was great and he saw that, he would empathize with that person strongly. There is some accuracy in Weimer's statement.

And yes Steve jobs pioneered the BEST business ethics I've ever seen - he cared in a way nobody before has about doing great work for the sake of doing something great. He always felt an obligation to the customer and even went overboard to a point where the suits ousted him, and then they proceeded to cut costs and extract all the profit they could muster forgetting that making something great is more important than profits or market share.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Oh yeah, he is widely known for his delicate and charming way of handling people.

Always felt an obligation to the customer huh? I suppose you missed all those email exchanges where he responded to a customer in a really dickish way. No matter, facts really aren't important when you are just making shit up as you go along.

Seriously, it's like you've never even heard of the man sometimes.

So who does more than Apple in terms of protecting workers? As much as they do, they are able to do only so much, and large suppliers are more likely culprits for any human rights violations.

Andrei Trostel's picture

I know this is hard to believe, but every company on the planet doesn't run sweat-shops to be successful. You CAN be successful in business without unethical and inhumane manufacturing processes. Apple does a lot NOW that they were caught and spotlighted as a "sweat-shop brand" although their child labor practices actually got worse, but the point is that they could have done all of those things before and didn't. Even now, when they have to address the conditions, because they were called out on it, they STILL have issues with inhumane manufacturing processes. Call me crazy if you want, but I personally find that very telling for a multi-billion dollar corporation who easily has the money to ratify the situation completely.

it's funny the more logical an argument is, the more hostile Andrei becomes - it's a trend I'm definitely noticing, so don't fear, Weimer.

Steve Jobs is a perfectly acceptable role model. What you don't understand is that mistakes made at some point are just that - and when you acknowledge and fix them and move forward that's is learning and the essence of the human condition. Some of his mistakes were bad (denying paternity, if he didn't actually not believe it)

I can only hope more of our generation go out and genuinely try to put a dent in the universe and not just make money. It's his deeper philosophy about life that is appealing.

He's not just some dude who made cool shit. He expressed his world views through the canvas that was technology.

In your argument that you "never said he was just a dick" (despite the ridiculousness that your even making that argument under an article titled as such), you are hypocritical in that nobody ever said Jobs was a fucking saint. He's a man. He was a great man who did great things and inspired MANY people to chase their dreams.

give it a rest andrei. You ARE like a broken record.

Andrei Trostel's picture

I think you are mistaking sarcasm for hostility. It's okay though, it happens all the time, especially for those who have trouble with chewing something instead of just swallowing whole what they are being fed.

"Steve Job is a perfectly acceptable role model"

Um, no, unless of course you are aspiring to be a wildly successful business/sales man who abandons/neglects his children, runs sweat-shops, parks in handicap spaces, treats people like shit, and is a self centered, narcissistic, megalomaniac.

If I sound like a broken record it is likely because you keep requesting the same song with your blind repetitive acolyte chanting about how great a humanitarian Steve Jobs was.

If you don't want a reality check, stop trying to sell me fantasy.

Besides, give it a rest? This is my column and certainly no one is putting a gun to your head to be here if you are tired of it. You can always opt out of receiving emails when people comment if you are SO over it, which clearly you aren't.

You're not bringing anything new to the table, Andrei. I'm sorry if it bothers you, but after having your arguments dispelled you insist on continuing to use them.

Um, yes if you're aspiring to do ANYTHING genuinely and with passion, he's a great role model.

no blind chanting here, but your broken record is beginning to sound like a chant: "death to jobs, death to jobs, parking spaces, death to jobs, denying paternity (but then fixing it), death to jobs, I'm jealous my being a dick isn't making me as great as steve, death to jobs.... oh was that your subconscious finding its way into the chant?

dude, reality my ass. You're more deluded than any apple fanatic I've ever met, and that sad thing is that you're deluded with cynicism. Being a cynic isn't cool. Oh and one more thing, as Gene came to realize in A Separate Peace, "Sarcasm is the tool of weak people."

Andrei Trostel's picture

I'm sorry, I don't see my arguments being dispelled, I just see a lot of hand waving and skirting the bigger picture in order to focus on micro arguments about one specific detail or another. Taken as a whole, the guy was still a dick, who was also a brilliant business/sales man that sold really cool shit. I'm not denying his positive traits or successes, I'm just ALSO not denying his negative traits or failures, which is what really has the fanatics all worked up who have placed him on a pedestal to be a role model. He isn't a good role model because he had passion or got shit done, because then Hitler would also be a good role model. It is HOW you achieve your success that makes you a good role model, not getting there at any cost.

Try not to confuse realism for cynicism.

Oh and one more thing, sarcasm is also a tool of comedy.

;)

that word from you cracks me up everytime I read it.. you are, LEGEN-wait for it-DARY :p

always
pink

BTW I just added you on facebook under the last name 'zankyani' :))

Andrei Trostel's picture

Thanks Pink, hey did you know that 83% of people crack up when they hear the word dick? True story. :P

Facebook friend...accepted. ;)

Dear dipshits with nothing better to do than make out with Steve Jobs' dead asshole,

Get a life. Maybe then you wouldn't have to spend your time worshipping some other asshole.

Love,
Your mother

Andrei Trostel's picture

It kind of sheds some light on why they are in the dark about SO many things doesn't it? Their heads are so far up his ass that they're in a total blackout.

:P

Steve jobs is the guy who's on the side of artistic people, idealists, and other nut cases the world over.

You can quote Steve Jobs, disagree with him, glorify, or VILIFY him. About the only thing you can't do is ignore him.

Can we say the same for you?

Andrei Trostel's picture

Unless of course you happen to have ever published a book with John Wiley & Sons, have ideals that include free expression and movement outside of the Apple environment, or want to think for yourself and not exactly like him.

I love how the zombie acolytes all claim to be free, out of the box, thinkers...as long as it is within a very closed minded, elitist, materialistic environment...I find that extremely amusing.

Yeah, you're doing a really bang up job of ignoring me, aren't you?

:P

oh I'm just enlightening you. :P

Andrei Trostel's picture

Sure you are, while totally ignoring me in the process too, right? :P

ps the iHumor....well it just iSN'T.

Andrei Trostel's picture

iDisagree, just because you happen to be the butt of the joke, doesn't mean it isn't funny.

Maybe you should just try and "Think Different."

;)

no, iJust don't think tacking an i onto the beginning of a a word is especially funny - unless it's used in an ESPECIALLY clever way. Which I have yet to see from you. It's kind of like "that's what she said" jokes ...except not as funny.

Andrei Trostel's picture

iThink you have somehow forgotten that humor is subjective and what YOU don't find especially funny, others have already commented on as being extremely funny.

iMaintain that you need to lighten up a little and Think Different.

;)

Missy K's picture

I'll be honest, I thought your article was a bit harsh like I might've stated before but am too lazy to check. But I read this article about him where he said that he had to compare his wife to his ex girlfriend (based on how attractive they are) before he proposed to her.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Haha It's actually worse than that Missy.

"In 1990, he proposed to her twice—each time, she accepted, and each time, he demurred about whether he really wanted to marry her. The second time, he even began to ask friends if Powell was good enough for him: “Who was prettier, Tina or Laurene? Who did they like better? Whom should he marry?”"

The guy was a dick.

;)

Dude Tina Redse was someone he believed to be his soulmate, naturally he was having pre-wedding jitters.

If because suddenly you are getting married and you disavow any feelings of love you ever felt... then that's just not real. That's what religion tells you to do. But who said you can't love more than 1 person. Obviously jealousy can happen and that's not good - but really anybody who denies having loved anyone or had feelings for them is fooling you or themselves. not everyone obviously. but i would hardly use this to back the dick argument.

Andrei Trostel's picture

As usual, I think you are missing the point. The point is that he was focusing on “Who was prettier, Tina or Laurene? Who did they like better?" I'm sorry but toying with a woman and trying to pick which one is prettier, or which one your friends would like better, is NOT anywhere in the realm of soulmate or love.

It's in the realm of the guy being a superficial dick.

As usual i think your missing the point: you infer a lot from one sentence somebody said. He wasn't "focusing in on who was prettier. You are basing your argument around inference. That was one line among many. get real dude.

Andrei Trostel's picture

You're absolutely right, that was one line among many, I'll get real dude.

"Powell's pregnancy did not completely settle the issue. Jobs again began balking at the idea of marriage, even though he had dramatically proposed to her both at the very beginning and the very end of 1990. Furious, she moved out of his house and back to her apartment. For a while he sulked or ignored the situation. Then he thought he might still be in love with Tina Redse; he sent her roses and tried to convince her to return to him, maybe even get married. He was not sure what he wanted, and he surprised a wide swath of friends and even acquaintances by asking them what he should do. Who was prettier, he would ask, Tina or Laurene? Who did they like better? Who should he marry?" -Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson.

I left out the part where she was pregnant at the time, silly me. Seriously, you have read this biography, right?

The guy was a dick!

The people that defend Jobs are people like him, narcissistic, self absorbed and Machiavellian. He was a fucking CEO of a multi-billion dollar company who made products a 5 year old can use. I have to hang my head in shame at our species when a man who sells a lot of electronics gets praised as a saint when people who actually do good in this world get nothing.

Jesus christ people, stop feeding on all the bullshit you are being fed and think for yourselves for a change.

Andrei Trostel's picture

It is kind of a depressing commentary on our species when a man who abandoned/neglected his children, parked in handicap spaces, ran sweatshops and was a self absorbed megalomaniac is heralded as a humanitarian, enlightened role model...because he was good at selling cool electronics.

Fucking ridiculous.

Wake up people and get just a little perspective.

you're just too cynical.

Steve temporarily denied paternity, undoubtedly an irresponsible action- but he went and fixed things and learned from it.

As for parking in handicap spaces, who gives a fuck - there's always more than enough spaces. It wasn't saying "i don't care" to handicap people, it was saying "i don't care" to authority ... nothing wrong with a little rebellion. It's like pissing outdoors - it's frowned upon and illegal, but it's fucking awesome. Besides, if Steve knew there was going to be a handicapped person(s) coming, I'm positive he would've gone out of his way to not park there. Really, this is a horrible example of Dick. As a matter of fact, it's riDICKulous.

Ran sweatshops. Umm, no. First of all NeXT was one of the only computer manufacturers that tried to manufacture most of it's own stuff, which ended up too expensive and made next unsuccessful (despite being 5 years ahead of anything else out at the time).

your riDICKulous.

good morning, sugar. ;)

Andrei Trostel's picture

You're just to delusional.

I love how you explain it away by "temporarily denied paternity, but he went and fixed things and leaned from it." Yeah, I'm sure you can just fix that like changing a battery (We all know how impossible that is to do in the world of Apple.) Exactly HOW did he magically fix it? Have you read Lisa Brennan-Jobs's blog? You know, the parts where she said she was raised on welfare and moved THIRTEEN TIMES, because her mom couldn't make rent. Oh, there was also that part where she reconnected with him in her teen years, but it felt awkward and his world didn't mix with hers. It's interesting that you say he learned from it since he sites "not being there for his children" as a reason for wanting Walter Isaacson to write his biography. It certainly doesn't sound like he learned how to not abandon/neglect his children to me, but then I don't think money can just fix anything.

"As for parking in handicap spaces, who gives a fuck - there's always more than enough spaces." HAHA! There it is, BRAVO, way to represent that enlightened thinking crowd. It's actually a pretty good example of being a dick, but since you apparently also park in handicap spaces, you likely wouldn't understand, just like not finding it funny when iJoke.

Ran sweatshops. Umm, yes. Read the reports, this is not conjecture at this point, but you can choose to ignore the facts if you want to.

You're (as in you are) iNcogitable.

Good morning, to you too sweetie. ;)

OMG this J.E. Weimier guy has to have some form of mental retardation or stunted development. WTF is wrong with this kid? Nobody normal is that thick. LOL!

Andrei Trostel's picture

Weijore, just likes to play mental/logic/debate chess and I can totally understand and respect that.

The problem is that when his king has clearly fallen he throws tantrums and starts moving other pieces around to convince himself that he actually won.

Reality can be hard to swallow sometimes.

;)

The fact that weijore spends so much of his time on this tells us all we need to know about him. Weijore - If you think you're right, just move on with your life. Debating this column isn't going to improve your life in any way, and you won't even remember it in 20 years. Unless you print it out and post it above your Steve Jobs shrine.

Andrei Trostel's picture

Hmmmm You think he would post it above his Steve Jobs shrine, or above his Andrei Trostel shrine?

Which one is he actually more obsessed with?

Tough call.

Haha!

Christ this entire thread is messed up. I had to modify the page styling on the fly so that the comments wouldn't end up one word per line.

Andrei, I think you need to get over how much you hate the guy, concentrate more on the people you actually do like, whatever the contributions. Taking absolute sides is what makes discussion so much harder nowadays, and this has never been more true than in the computer science domain. Hell I've had arguments over static/dynamic typing in programming, so surely you can understand the reactions you're getting from such macabre images, almost celebrating someones death.

Sure there have been quite a few reactions since his death, but what do you expect from someone so well known? When you see positive words from the competition leaders (Vic Gundotra, Larry Page and Sergey Brin from Google, Bill Gates… even Samsung's CEO), recognise the admiration from people who didn't need to say anything.

We've all insulted people and shouted in anger (a lot here incidentally), so doesn't that pretty much make us all “dicks”? Our prisons are overflowing and we've seen worldwide rioting recently, and we're accusing someone with family issues and a bad temper of being almost evil?

In your article you regret less reaction following the death of Wangari Maathai, a person I was unaware of, but I'm sure is missed by those that count. After Jobs died, a brilliant computer scientist by the name of Dennis Ritchie also left us. He developed the C language and UNIX, foundation components for most of everything in computers nowadays. A week after him, John Mccarthy died. He invented Lisp and as a pioneer in the field, invented the expression “artificial intelligence”.

These were all important people to me, as role models and respected people. You might not have known these people, but we don't need to compare deaths, now do we? Especially for such a sad objective…

Jobs was one of the great people, in a long list of great people, and while we don't forget the bad parts, we remember the good parts.

Andrei Trostel's picture

On the contrary, I don't hate Steve Jobs, I hate blind, ignorant, mindless, acolyte, zombie sheep who can't think for themselves and actually DO forget the bad parts to further their delusions about actual reality.

;)

GE's picture

I, on the other hand, don't love Steve Jobs, I don't love blind, ignorant, mindless, acolyte, zombie sheep who think they're thinking for themselves, who forget all the good that person can bring about by connecting millions of people to each other and to themselves.

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